I have been looking around for a nice Ithaca, Model 37. As most know, about 2 million were produced - about the same number produced as The Model 12, Winchester. Looking on The Gunsinternational site, there are about a dozen Model 37's for sale verses about 175 Model 12 guns.
Model 37's also seem to carry a higher price tag than a somewhat comparable Model 12. Can anyone tell me why this is so? Thanks, in advance.

I'd sure like to hear Walt Snyder's views on this. I like the muzzle forward feel of the M12's, something I don't find in a M37. Perhaps that is just me.

Model 12 had a lot of collector interest 23-30 years ago and prices were very high due to demand. Today those same buyers are "old fart" sellers as my wife calls us. Model 12 demand is soft. Very few younger shooters have any interest in learning how to operate a pump gun. It is all about Beneli SBE3 and other black guns or semi autos and as they get a bit older perhaps a O/U. Graded and upgraded model 12s, which too many graded guns are in fact, still command a good price but a plain barrel Model 12 has so many competing examples that they are cheap. The only field gun which still commands a good price is a 3' duck gun in solid condition.

37 owners have always been a more of a shooting interest, versus collecting interest, so they never went up that much in price. The shooters see no reason to dump their collections right now because they never over paid for them in the first place. Plus we like to shoot them and find them a hoot to shoot at sporting clay's and in the field. When I take my 28 or 20 dove shooting there is always someone who wants to look at it and marvels how smooth it pumps and fast it handles. People are so use to seven pound semi autos that a five to six pound gun is a magic wand to them. I like the solid rib versions and have several in 12, 16 and 20. The quality of wood Ithaca used puts Winchester wood to shame as well.

Not trying to steal the thread but a Win 12 doesn’t hold a candle to a Remington 31 for smoothness.

Shooting clay target games with a bottom ejecting gun is trouble, all the extra shucking can cause auto release voice calls to go off. If shooting a pump gun or auto at trap the side loaders are much easier to handle.

Going to respectfully disagree -- while I'm not young anymore, I'm not quite at old fart status yet and folks in my friend group love my model 12 (a late production field gun, 60 or 61, I don't recall.)

I went to a model 12 specific shoot here in northern Indiana and there were quite a few people around my age, and several younger.

These guns evoke a time when this country made the best stuff in the world, and while they were mass produced, there was still a good bit of hand finishing. Also, some parts were machined from billet that had no reason to be and exude quality in comparison to everythiing "new" that my generation has experience with. I'm talking about things like the cartridge cutoff that in a modern gun would be stamped.

Every time I tear mine down I sort of marvel at the fact that it's as over built and over engineered as it is, simply because they wanted to build the best pump rather than a pump at a price point.

I had a 1928 field with the slimmer furniture that I never should have sold. Lesson learned.

All the extra shucking? What extra shucking? After the shot, I generally just slide a round into the magazine, wait my turn, and just before I call for my bird, cycle the action. It doesn’t get much easier than that.

I have never seen a gun set off a voice activated trap. And, if it does, so what? Call for another bird. The voice activated traps are fading away at my club, as there is an abundance of kids willing to work as pullers for some comp on their high school trap leagues.

I don’t think one design of pump is “easier” than another, you are either knowledgeable about how it works, or, you aren’t. You can say you prefer one to the other, but, that is different.

Best,
Ted

I have owned both in the past although they are seldom seen in the U.K. I did like the bottom eject facility of the model 37 and felt it a little more strongly made. Only pump I now own is an old Winchester 1893 model. I do shoot it from time to time with black powder re-loads but it's a pig to clean not being a take down model. Lagopus…..

If you find yourself in a warm corner, you know where the empty hulls are from the 37. Right by your feet.

Best,
Ted

Model 12s are truly great guns, and for all the reasons mentioned above. Model 37s are popular now because they are also well made (at least the earlier versions) and they tend to fit more folks a little better (certainly better in an ambidextrous fashion anyway). They are also way lighter, making them more attractive for the upland game hunting crowd. When you own several pump guns, the more useful versions seem to the be last ones you let go of...

With that said, I did list two Model 31s over on 16ga.com. Both are the "L" models, one is a 20, the other is 16. I guess I could list them here as well, as long as nobody objects? The pumpgun market has clearly evolved in the last few years. I'm seeing some pretty unbelievable prices for the better and more-rare options. They are clearly very effective bird guns in the right hands. When is the last time you saw a good Model 17?

OK-- field strip both a M12-pre-1960, and the same yom M37. What's behind the bolt of a M12 when it is in battery, and a live round in the chamber ahead of it?? Now ask the same question about a M37-- granted, John M. Browning developed the M17 Remington, which morphed into the Ithaca M37 some years later--Ask your self how many ATA Cham[ionships have been won with pump guns?? OK- of that number, how do the Model 12, Model 31, Model 870 and Model 37 Trap guns claim their share of the trophy cups and money awards?? I rest my case.

Single loading a 37 is easy, action open, push the carrier all the way up to the top of the action with the shell, close the action. No extra shucking necessary. 37's are for hunting though!
Chief

Counting the Remington 17, the ancestor to the Ithaca M37, the design has been continuously manufactured for over a century. Fewer parts than an M12, saner barrel takedown, no stamped parts as in the 870. Solid, reliable shotgun, and lighter weight than the Winchesters or 870. I have all three, but my favorite is the Ithaca. Gil

AZ Mike's comment about "extra shucking" refers to shooters who have never been taught how to use a Model 37. ChiefAmungun explains how it is done. AZ Mike, maybe you should "take the course" on Model 37s and learn how to load one. However, the Model 37 was never popular at the ATA shoots because of the different loading procedure and the shells on the ground under your feet. It is easy to catch empties with a Model 12 or 870, but impossible with the Ithaca. Graded Ithacas are extremely rare compared to Model 12s and are selling for very high prices when found in high condition with Knick ribs.

eighbore,
I have a shot many dove with a model 17 and although I don't single shoot it I am familiar with it's function. I owned a trap range/campground and restaurant for 17 years, we threw over 600,000 targets a season. I bought the first sets of voice actuated calls in Arizona in the late 90's. Extra targets thrown by inexperienced calling and ill timed gun noises are a financial "leak" to a gun club.Ted's idea if a target is thrown inadvertantly "just call for another" is wasteful and costs the operator money. When I would see new shooters and specifically pump guns and autos they would get a quick and friendly class on when to close up their actions and don't talk to your buds on the line! New shooters like to "explain" their misses and cuss at the targets, this really confuses the 3 second time delay in the Canterberry calls.

Very interesting 8-Bore. I have never heard the term you used- "Knick" rib. My 1940's era Pigeon Grade Trap has the so-called "Old Milled Rib" and as that is the only one of my 7 M12's with a ventilated rib, I have nothing to compare it to in the WRA lineup. Could you possibly "splain'"" a bit here. I traded off the the Rem 31TC 12 bore years ago, most likely against an L.C. Smith, who knew?? WRA started to "bite the dust" in 1964-- looks like Remington-UMC, except for ammo, is closing out gun production. Do they still own the rights to the Parker tradename, going back to 1934?? RWTF

A capital holding company (JJE, the parent of Palmetto State Armory) got Parker as well as H&R and some other bits.

Can’t seem to buy a new one either. Been showing out of stock for quite awhile now. Hope they didn’t stop making them. Just cranking out 1911’s?

https://ithacagun.com/product/model-37-featherlight/


___________________________
Don’t forget the cool engraving.
I like the pheasant side better than the duck side.

I sold two 16s a few weeks ago. I'd bought them for my twins, neither of whom is a shooter as an adult.

I've still got a lot of other guns to get into someone else's hands over the next few years. None of my kids are interested and my wife doesn't want to be dealing with them when I'm gone. Makes me a bit sad, but I guess the memories are only mine and the guns have no real meaning without them to my children.

You still haven’t explained all the extra shucking you blamed on one model of pump shotgun.

Last I checked, the cost of a clay bird was about $0.07, when purchased by the full semi load. Most operators are getting $.75-1.00 a bird, and selling a bit of hospitality, beverages and bar food, along with a round. That ain’t much of a leak. I don’t know anybody who I trust with a shotgun to not be able to figure out how to keep an accidental throw from happening after it happens once. It seems like it is usually someone yelling at someone else, over their hearing protection that causes an accidental throw. My guns, auto, pump, or double, don’t set the throwers off at my club. More common, I end up calling for my bird, twice. But, only one field has the things up and running since the high schools started having shooting programs for kids. The family that owns my club is extraordinarily generous to the high school programs, and gives a bunch of kids the opportunity to work at the club to help ease the cost of their sport. A bunch of kids take them up on it, too.

A model 37 (or, a model 17, I own both) is a fine shotgun for clays games and hunting.

Best,
Ted

Ted, The 37 needs to be held in a manner so you can shove the shell much further in the receiver than any side loader, not all shooters are totally comfortable with that, much easier to shove one into the magazine push the release and shuck one into the chamber. I will sign up for the course when it is offered in AZ!
A round of trap where I shoot is $5.00, I don't think that I would pay $18.75 or $25.00 for 25 targets! I suppose at that price you could justify a few "freebies".
In these modern times you will see many more shooting ranges closing, no ammo, rising target prices (goes right along with petroleum) plus pressures from state and local government officials.

On operating a mdl. 37 pump gun. Clearing the mag, you don't have to rack them all through the action spewing shells in the dirt, chambering live rounds while the gun is in an unsafe position etc. Find the mag stop and use it! Single load as outlined above then fill the mag. Another nice feature of the 37. After releasing the rounds in the mag to your hand via the mag stop, keep your hand well back on the fore end . Release the action and pull the slide back, the chambered round will surely be delivered to hand.
October's just around the corner!!

I rec'd my 1st mod.37 (deluxe model with vent rib) at the age of13. Still have it at 66. 1st shotgun and it being a birthday gift I would never part with it. Hunted pheasants and rabbits and shot a lot of ATA trap. Be wary of the man with only one gun. Never had a problem with it. Loading on the line was easy. Great for me as a left hand shooter and I never had to worry about hitting someone with an empty hull. Seeing the faces of those guys with those fancy two barrel guns was priceless when they where beat by the kid with the pump. I shot 1000's upon 1000's of shells thru that gun without a hick up. Great wood, slick action,and easy to carry. The slam fire action was an added plus.
I have a Skeet 20 ga. that is just as good. I always thought they where an underrated gun. Nice used guns easily found used for $250- $300 when Mod.12's where twice the price (or more).

Foxy, reread my post and you will see that I was referring to the Knick rib on the Ithaca, not the Winchester. The "Knick rib" refers to the wide ventilated rib that is the same rib used on the "Knickerbocker" model single trap gun. It was installed on early graded Model 37 Ithacas, both trap and skeet models.

Ithaca Gun in Upper Sandusky Ohio just sent out an email yesterday saying that the home defense model is back in stock and available. I suspect they are in high demand right now. The 37's you do find have gone up in price a lot as has all guns lately. Although not sure of in Canada.

Upper Sandusky makes a pretty decent 37 IME. I use one for clays when I feel the need for a 12 ga. and shucking shells. Got AAA wood for it too, it is one of my waterfowl guns. Grandpa's 37 duck gun was wood and steel good enough for him good enough for me.



Also have an Upper Sandusky 12 ga. Ultralight that comes in at 6 pounds. Only section of land in SD that didn't have a fence post to set the gun on LOL



Something special about the prewar 37's though. 1940 Trap with Knick rib





Have a 37 Skeet with a Knick rib but it came from the factory with a Poly on it. Picked up a 28" Knickerbocker bbl. on ebay a few years back but still haven't had it fitted. The Polychokes may be ugly but they work, and honestly like how it swings. One of these days will have the unmolested Knick bbl. fitted.

Most of my 37's are in 16 ga. as that is what I grew up with. And prefer to shoot even for clays. Bottom gun is a 16 ga. 1961 37RVD



Some didn't care for the King Ferry 37's. I never had any problem with them. KF 16 ga. English Ultralight Deluxe works just fine, grouse don't care for them so much.



Favorite 37's are pre 1955, in 16 ga. of course. They just work for me and work well.





The 20 ga. 37 Ultralights at just over 5 pounds had the Sid Bell grip caps on them. Sort of Garanimals for hunters LOL.



20 ga. UL deerslayer compared to prewar 37T 12 ga.



A couple of slugs through a 5 pound gun was enough to convince me that I didn't really ever need to do that again.

I never felt the need for a Model 12. Have an 870 somewhere around here, just because. Not really sure how many 37's I own but I am sure it is not enough of them.

very nice collection of 37's. I am partial to them. The prices of the new ones shock me. I picked up my early 20 ga. skeet for $165.00. I guess sometimes you can get lucky.

Here's my first year of production 20 ga. M37 made in 1939. It was advertised to weigh 5.75 lbs. and this one is a little lighter by an ounce. The weight savings was partially accomplished by a square cut hollowed out section in the stock. This one was a "second" and because of the faulty set up of the roller engraver, rather than discard the partially engraved receivers, the scenes were completed by hand chasing at the factory with more than a little extra thrown in. At the time, Ithaca used high gloss bluing. This one is a keeper with its 28" modified barrel. Gil

Great bunch of 37’s, thanks for sharing! I’m partial to model 31s , with one in 16 and a 20. Great guns, smooth actions and fit well. I had a 20 ga 37 at one time, a clean example from the 70s, wish I still had it with today’s used gun prices. It had a big orange bead which I didn’t care for... I keep thinking of ordering a 20 or 28 ga M37 from the Ithaca Gun folks but haven’t taken the leap yet.

Anyone have a report on the 28 ga version of the 37?

-Tom

Three 16 gauge pumpguns, an M12, M31L, and a pre-war M37.

I owned one of the King’s Ferry 16 gauge Ultras, it had killer wood and a ventilated rib, screw choke barrel, that left it about the same weight as a mid 50s 16 gauge 37 that had a plain barrel the same length. Sold both, but, more than doubled my money on the sale of the Ultra. Did OK on the Feather Weight, too.
I still have a King’s Ferry 12 gauge, 3” magnum (ever seen one?) with two barrels, 26” and 30”, too short and too long. Good quality gun, HEAVY, over 8 lbs, I shoot some trap with it, but, have to reverse the safety back to right handed since my difficulty with the left eye started.
44 seasons past, my Dad’s deer hunting partner sold me a model 17 for $50, that started me down the Ithaca path. I have lefty and righty safeties for that gun, and two barrels, a 26” modified and the 21” Baker choked barrel that had a ventilated Cutts on it, that I hated. Stan amputated the Cutts, best grouse hunting move I ever made.
Fine guns. Ithaca 12 magnum, and Remington model 17:



Best,
Ted

A few of the earlier versions had "timing" issues regarding cycling. I had to send mine back to the factory for repair of the issue under warranty. One man was responsible for gunsmithing issues of the 28 ga. and he was on sick leave at the time with knee surgery. It took awhile for the repair to be done and returned. It's fine now. I have the upgraded wood. Due to the thicker barrel to accommodate screw-in chokes, the weight is 6 lbs. While the custom shop will fabricate a stock without a recoil pad, at least one was done for Walt Snyder, there is no option of gun without recoil pad nor is there a plain barrel version which I would have preferred. The rib is a strip of aluminum laid across stanchions milled into the barrel and affixed at one end with a screw. KYJon's family shoots both the M12 and M37 in 28 ga. Gil

I love my 28 37. Did have cycling issues which they fixed quickly. Went directly to the factory to buy mine. I wanted a black chrome version but they had none on hand. Mine has killed 250-300 dove and shot thousands of sporting clays and skeet targets. After the initial cycling problem it has been perfect. My Model 12 28 Skeet gun was my Christmas present when I was 12. The gun and a case of shell. It has killed more quail and ducks than I will ever shoot for the rest of my life. I love both and will never sell them.

KY- I am nearing 80- when my 12th B'day came along, my Dad gave me his first B'day present shotgun, which I still have: M12 20 gauge 28" Mod. solid rib field gun, 2&3/4" chamber, WPS. He received in in July 1931--someday it will go to my Grandson. Thousands of shells through that, and all the other "Perfect Repeaters" I own- all made before the Korean Conflict. Have no idea your age, just wondered if the 28 gauge was as popular for bird hunting as the 20 was/is. RWTF

I think my father gave me the 28 with the thought that if I wanted a deer rifle he would take it for quail hunting and buy me a Model 70 30 06. My brother got a Browning superposed a couple years earlier, then decided he wanted a deer rifle more. Dad kept the Browning, brother got a Model 70. We had a family friend who was a Winchester rep..

But I loved that 28 Skeet gun. We had a creek perfect for ducks which I could kill 100 ducks a year on. The only time I got into trouble was when I killed three geese with it one morning. Decoying ducks were one thing my father said but geese were too big for the 28 with an ounce of 5 shot. He was right but I killed three with four shots. Still I never tried it again. That 28 will be with me for life and my three sons will have to cut cards to see who gets it. That or they can pick one gun at a time out of the gun room. It would be a thought call on if I would choose the 28 or one of the 42 pigeon grades. I think 28.

Our family WRA friend was the late Aubrey Brennan, sales rep for the Midwest area- Lived in Alton, IL. He took us to see many of Herb Parsons shooting performances in the 1950's. I own a custom shop M63 .22LR- engine turned bolt, checkered stock- 23" barrel. It wears a Weaver steel body 4x blue scope, plus has the factory iron sights- Squirrels run and hide when I carry that M63 into the October afternoon woods.Aubrey ordered that M63 for my 16th Birthday. None of my Winchesters are for sale- grandsons get them. RWTF