UPDATE: Good news. I filed complaint with local law enforcement when this theft happened. I recently received an email from the investigating officer. Lo and behold, he was able to make an arrest and in fact recovered my rifle. the case is in court now. I was told I would be contacted after the case is adjudicated to get the rifle. The stock blank was not recovered and the suspect stated he "got rid of it" UPS did not do squat with their investigation. they would rather just write it off. the hell with the customer. Evidently this guy would remove packages that contained guns and would take them to his truck. no cameras in the sorting area. that he got rid of it. so for the naysayers that felt I jumped the gun on my accusation of theft, I guess i was right !!!
three weeks ago I shipped a Ruger Hawkeye Stainless 338 Federal and a screaming piece of Turkish walnut to my stock maker for a restock. Insured, with signed receipt from pick up. which UPS requires on anything over $1000 of insured value, (supposedly to assist in accountability and theft prevention) Package containing rifle and blank (measured 50" x 10" x 4" and weighted 26 lbs) arrived at distribution center (Camdenton, MO) near my dealer. after that it was tracked as "delayed". Package never got to my dealer. I initiated claim. UPS acts like its n big deal. I asked them if they notified ATF and they said no.
Of course they want me to produce a receipt for a rifle I purchased 15 years or so ago. Now the fight to get my value out of them. I did file an official report with the Camdenton Police Dept. The officer said he will investigate. Thats better than what UPS will do. No way I am letting UPS sweep this under the rug.
On top of that, my stocker informed me that he had a 5K shotgun he purchased from a Florida dealer stolen at the same location, same circumstances, about 3 months ago. so obviously there is someone with penchant for stealing firearms. And believe it or not, ATF wont take a notification of firearms theft unless its form a dealer, meaning a gun logged in a dealers bound book. this was personal gun. ATF could care less. So, anyone out in the Missouri area, please keep an eye peeled for a Ruger Hawkeye 338 Federal with a 20" barrel. I cut it down a while ago. Wood Ruger factory stock with crossbolt reinforcement.
im sure the stock blank ended up as firewood or donnage to hold up a broker vehicle in a driveway!!~!!
You are required by law to report this to law enforcement. If it involved an Interstate shipment that makes it a Federal issue. Contact the FBI and advise the local UPS delivery office that you have done this. You may be pleasantly surprised how things change. I got a $100,000 double rifle located and delivered in 2 days after it was 4 days overdue.
I already informed the Facility Manager in Camdenton that I was doing this. However, ATF will not accept a report of a stolen firearm from an individual. I tried. FBI will be next. Thanks for that suggestion.
It seems to me that the Apple Air Tag ($29.00) tracking device is a small price to pay to be able to learn where such a package is. They are being used successfully to locate airline bags that the airlines don't know or maybe do not care to know where their subcontractors have placed them after they stole them.
It may turn up. I had a set of barrels USPS lost from a 28 ga English gun for almost 2 months. Like you, I was very ticked off. But, they finally turned up. You may still have some hope. Good luck.
I already informed the Facility Manager in Camdenton that I was doing this. However, ATF will not accept a report of a stolen firearm from an individual. I tried. FBI will be next. Thanks for that suggestion.
It seems to me that the Apple Air Tag ($29.00) tracking device is a small price to pay to be able to learn where such a package is. They are being used successfully to locate airline bags that the airlines don't know or maybe do not care to know where their subcontractors have placed them after they stole them.
A few people in Toronto have just used the Air Tags to determine that Air Canada was literally giving their luggage away. Donating it.
Sorry to hear of your lost. I have had run ins with Fedex, UPS and USPS. Nobody cares. Nobody wants to do anything and everyone wants to dodge the claims. Stay calm, keep pushing and I am sure you are to going to let this go away. Do keep notes about everyone you talk to and what was said. Not verbatim notes but clear notes of what they said and any dates that they bring forth. It will more likely come down to money being the best motivator for UPS. They will deny your claims at first as a way to delay, then demand more proof that I found reasonable. I was lucky and had clear auction records about what I paid for the gun along with a copy of the sales recorded with shipping and shipping fees, including a declared value that I paid import duties on.
I used a postal inspector to get USPS to find a gun they lost for seven weeks. It was shipped with a signature being required at every step along the way. Crickets for weeks. No tracking could find a trace once it entered the system. It took me weeks to find and get the right person involved. Postal inspector figured out where the trail wnet cold and started an investigation that found the gun in two days. And you are right that ATF could not care about your reporting a gun stolen. I thought that was rich. Could not even be bothered to enter a serial number in a non existent stolen gun registry.
At least with the USPS stringent signature requirements with registered mail there are enough bread crumbs to find where it breaks down. Son' s FIL is a retired postal inspector having had a second career after a career in the USN. Finding rotten eggs in the system was his job. One less than elegant method was the mailing of silver dollars that could be easily felt in envelopes. After each stage of "handling" they were able to isolate where the theft occurred. Some folks can resist everything but temptation. Gil
So, I can partly see the reasons you might feel it could have been stolen, but what is your proof that it is not just "lost in the system" like so many packages are/have been? You made a very strong claim that it has been stolen by a UPS employee.
Sir-I read with a great degree of disgust-in the entire BATFE lack of interest in your "missing" valued weapon, and I hope that it does show up intact. But there is a very valid point you made, one that, IMO anyway, deserves elaboration-- How many of us on this forum would have receipts from guns we purchased, even private sales transactions, from years ago?? I have a few, in my case many of the firearms I now own and treasure, were purchased from good friend and master gunsmith, the late Brad Bachelder- a few at gun shows, also receipted, the rest were from family inheritance. How well any of that paperwork on his business forms, and passed the "Stevie Nicks" background check proceedure, so I would guess a record of those purchases would exist in the BATFE file system.. The biggest problem, as I see it, and sadly with all the senseless random shootings extant in the USA, the BATFE clowns would only track theft of the EBR class of weapons, and fine sporting arms such as your Ruger rifle would be regarded as would BB guns or their equivalent. I tend to have a distrust of our Gov't- in my 8 years in the USMC, my transfer of duty station orders were "lost" 3 times that I recall- "I'm from the Gov't and I'm really here to help"-- right. Best wishes for the safe recovery of your prized weapon--and I also suspect theft in this case- but as a Fox, I am suspicious by nature. RWTF
Do not expect much from local authorities if it was sent over state lines. They did nothing for me.
You have to de diligent and keep after ups.
They use to use an outside insurance company if you insured through ups. Like all insurance companies they are your best friends when the premiums are flowing their way, when the money needs to come your way they don’t know you.
Stanton, My proof is that it got to the final destination before being loaded into a delivery truck and just disappeared. It was scanned in at the facility. A 50" long package doesn't accidently get shoved under a counter. And there is a prior recent history of another high end gun being stolen there. same situation. same dealer destination. so, while there may be, ( as a realist I doubt it) an extremely small chance it was "misplaced" but given the facts and the situation, I will stand by my accusation that it was stolen.
Lost until found. And even if it is only “ lost” who is to say it will ever be recovered and delivered? But lost none the less wether it is by incompetence or intent, lost. And if “accidentally” misplaced will it return to the system by magic or just be taken home like spoils of war? When I pay extra for a service I rightfully expect to receive that service. And if I declare value, then pay for insurance for that value I should get paid. After all I did not lose a valuable package entrusted to me, I did not know it was going to be lost. UPS lost the package and now they or their insurance carrier will try to weasel their way out out being responsible for the loss and then will demean its value. Good luck Brian. Been there and done that as we say.
My experience with UPS was the paperwork was scanned and forwarded to Oak Creek WI from Chicago.The package was never scanned on the to the Oak Creek truck. Both package and paperwork were scanned off the initial the truck from Va at Chicago. The racket involve the driver loading it back on his return VA bound truck with no scanning then unloading it at the VA depot again unscanned. It was then put on a top shelf in the warehouse to see if the dust would settle. When I told my local UPS mgr that after 4 days I was required by Law to Notify FBI. the dust became decidedly unsettled, it was located within 12 hours (in VA) and air shipped to the local UPS office for me to pick up.
My experience with UPS was the paperwork was scanned and forwarded to Oak Creek WI from Chicago.The package was never scanned on the to the Oak Creek truck. Both package and paperwork were scanned off the initial the truck from Va at Chicago. The racket involve the driver loading it back on his return VA bound truck with no scanning then unloading it at the VA depot again unscanned. It was then put on a top shelf in the warehouse to see if the dust would settle. When I told my local UPS mgr that after 4 days I was required by Law to Notify FBI. the dust became decidedly unsettled, it was located within 12 hours (in VA) and air shipped to the local UPS office for me to pick up.
Worked my way through college at UPS and this doesn’t make any sense. Practically impossible to pull off. The semi drivers don’t load or unload anything.
If Brian’s gun isn’t found, someone in the Missouri building snaked it.
BATF only takes stolen/lost firearms info from an FFL who is reporting the theft/loss from their inventory (shop or a shipment. The FFL must first get a L/E agency to actually take a Stolen/Lost firearm report. With that, the CR# from that report is needed when contacting the BATF to make that report to them. IIRC the FFL has something like 24 or 48 hrs to report a gun missing from their inventory.
What the BATF does with the info is really irrelevent.
With a crime-stolen firearm/or lost firearm report taken by any L/E agency in the USA,,the firearms info will be entered into NCIC in the GunENT system anyway. Any agency anywhere running that ser# will get a hit on the firearm with the corresponding misc descriptive info of the firearm and the reporting agencys info for contact. NCIC searches and hits on the ser# only. So sometimes multiple hits come back and the operator has to sort out the info with the descriptive info.
The biggest problem is getting any L/E agency to actually take the report when this type of situation is involved,,,long distance shipping, interstate. That gets kicked down the road generally. The usual questions.. How do you know it was actually stolen ? Where was it actually stolen from? Where was it last and who had it.?
L/E agencys don't like to have stolen firearms reports in their yearly #'s.
I went through that twice as an FFL.
Hope your rifle gets back to you. Shipping firearms is a headache and getting worse every day.
Please explain where we "enter" serial numbers to get a hit. A 4473 does not include serial numbers, and I don't know any other place to enter the number.
In Canada all insurance companies must have a 'internal ombudsman' and there is a provincial oversite ombudsman. I had to use one on a case with 10 antique guns stolen where the claims managerr auto discounted the value of each by 50%. When I got the ombusman involved they reminded the claims manager that my policy was for replacement value for everything with no discount. Case got cleaned up quickly after that. I didn't receive full value replacement as that was hard to determine but my settlement jumped by over 50% with the ombudsman involved.
Just spoke to a neighbor who worked at UPS and recently retired.
Said sometimes that if they see a package at the center that is exceptional long that would not make the curves on the belt system they pull it as it would get stuck on a curve and the belt would keep running and packages would back up the belt system
So they hand process it. Maybe this was what was done and then the ball was dropped
Just spoke to a neighbor who worked at UPS and recently retired.
Said sometimes that if they see a package at the center that is exceptional long that would not make the curves on the belt system they pull it as it would get stuck on a curve and the belt would keep running and packages would back up the belt system
So they hand process it. Maybe this was what was done and then the ball was dropped
John Boyd
Belts were always getting jammed. You’d break the jam and send the packages down the belt. If someone pulled it off the belt they wouldn’t just set it down anywhere they’d hand carry it to where it needed to be. You would always walk the belts after the trucks were unloaded to find all the letters and small packages that fell off. Can’t see how something that size gets “lost” in the building. If it was stolen I’d love to know how the thief got it out of the building and off UPS property. You can get away with it once but UPS is deadly serious about employee theft.
Don’t have any 1st hand knowledge of this but herd of Employees printing labels with a fictitious account and a friends destination. Some thing that looks of value comes through and they slap the new label over the old label and reroute the package.
Please explain where we "enter" serial numbers to get a hit. A 4473 does not include serial numbers, and I don't know any other place to enter the number.
'You' don't enter anything...into NCIC,,that is for L/E use only. Both entry, search, modify entry, retrieve, cancel, etc. The system has enough errors in it with that.
The stolen gun info comes from a L/E stolen/lost firearms report. The info gets into NCIC by that L/E agency then entering it into NCIC through their own computer terminal link. Some small agencys didn't used to have their own terminal. So the Sheriffs Office or a Metro PD would enter their data for them using the smaller PD's identifier IRO.
The BATF only requires FFL's to report missing/stolen/lost firearms from their inventory to them. But again the FFL must have the local L/E agencys report # (CR#) when reporting the incident to the BAFT.
Stanton, My proof is that it got to the final destination before being loaded into a delivery truck and just disappeared. It was scanned in at the facility. A 50" long package doesn't accidently get shoved under a counter. And there is a prior recent history of another high end gun being stolen there. same situation. same dealer destination. so, while there may be, ( as a realist I doubt it) an extremely small chance it was "misplaced" but given the facts and the situation, I will stand by my accusation that it was stolen.
Try entering that amount of evidence into a court of law as "proof". Won't get you very far. I understand your angst, but not your surety of accusation.
All this makes me wish I could drive my guns to their destinations. Thieves, thieves, thieves everywhere. And I agree they will get caught sooner or later because they will keep stealing since they have invented the perfect system, fool proof, easy and profitable. Only problem is those watching will sooner or later get a tip, find a mistake or by shear dumb luck catch them. Only the chances of this gun getting recovered are smaller by the day. Not zero but decreasing.
Having reading how well, and for how long, apple tags work, it would be very smart for a person to discreetly place one in every package of valuables they release custody of for transport.
It won't be long before the crooks learn to listen for the distinctive chirping that Apple Air Tags make. I'm hard of hearing yet I hear one in my truck often. Sometimes it goes on for several seconds before stopping. Hearing that in a package would be a dead giveaway.
"There is already a secondary market for modified AirTags with the speaker disabled for 'stealth mode,'" tweeted Eva Galperin, director of cybersecurity at the Electronic Frontier Foundation and a leading opponent of cyberstalking, after being told of the muted AirTag reseller pages yesterday (Feb. 2).
Stanton, My proof is that it got to the final destination before being loaded into a delivery truck and just disappeared. It was scanned in at the facility. A 50" long package doesn't accidently get shoved under a counter. And there is a prior recent history of another high end gun being stolen there. same situation. same dealer destination. so, while there may be, ( as a realist I doubt it) an extremely small chance it was "misplaced" but given the facts and the situation, I will stand by my accusation that it was stolen.
Try entering that amount of evidence into a court of law as "proof". Won't get you very far. I understand your angst, but not your surety of accusation.
Ok, let me rephrase. I am alleging that it was stolen, the preponderance of the evidence suggests that. enough so that I can say with certainty that the package didnt gor legs and walk off on its own. therefore, it took human interaction for it to disappear. You domt have to have a ton of evidence to charge someone with a crime or violation. hell, a speeding ticket (accusation) is alleged until proven in court but they can haul you into court for it. same as a DWI.
lets now loose sight of my post. UPS cant locate my 1800 dollar package and it was in their possession, they have it documented to their final sort facility and then it is missing. doesn't take a rocket scientist or Clarence Darrow to deduce the probability of theft.
I once had a shipment disappear during handling by FedEx. It was expensive ham radio gear. As they were processing the claim after a month missing during shipment, FedEx notified me that Lands End had received the radio equipment in a seller/shipper reused Lands End shipment box that bore the name of the seller on the old shipping label. FedEx returned the box to Lands End for them to sort out the problem. Lands End contacted the seller and it was picked up by FedEx after Lands End affixed the correct shipping label. The original label had been destroyed on the outer box as the Lands End box was the inside box of a double box shipment. After 6 weeks I got the equipment. Gil
Lands End??? Aren't they a supplier of catalog yuppie clothing, like Eddie Bean, or L.L. Bauser?? How in the blazes would Ham radio equipment get mixed into a clothing and or outdoor equipment in the first place. CQ CQ Whiskey 8 Mike November Zulu!!!
Lands End??? Aren't they a supplier of catalog yuppie clothing, like Eddie Bean, or L.L. Bauser?? How in the blazes would Ham radio equipment get mixed into a clothing and or outdoor equipment in the first place. CQ CQ Whiskey 8 Mike November Zulu!!!
Hogwash
Well if you think a 81 year old life time hunter and fisherman (myself) is a yuppie then maybe LL Bean are suppliers of Yuppie catalogues to us yuppies. I have been buying from LL Bean for likely 60 years and well before the name yuppie was dreamed up. Take a look at the knee high LL Bean boots worn by Archibald Rutledge in some of his photos from the 1930's---does ole Archie qualify as a Yuppie? No, he knew what works well in the "FIELD" and mostly in his case the swamps of the South Carolina low country and the grouse hills of Pennsylvania where he lived while teaching.
I like LL Bean clothing so much I have had a LL Bean credit card for years and years. Of course they are going to have to make clothing for the youngsters ---how else are they going to stay in business we eighty year olds are not going to live forever.
I once sold a gentleman a rifle and he added a discontinued new in box Leupold scope that I had to the purchase. I placed the sealed Leupold box inside the large rifle box. Rifle arrived at his FFL without the scope in the rifle box. He believed I had put it in there and I believed he didn’t take it out but I am still at a loss for what could’ve happened. I either sent him a second scope or refunded the money but I had insured the package for the value of both and submitted a claim for the scope. A few months went by and I continued to put constant pressure on UPS as it always takes. I finally pinched them to the point that I was told a check would be issued that day. Two days later the original Leupold scope still sealed and with a dozen labels and barcodes on it arrived at my office. No notice, no explanation, and no idea what happened
I once sold a gentleman a rifle and he added a discontinued new in box Leupold scope that I had to the purchase. I placed the sealed Leupold box inside the large rifle box. Rifle arrived at his FFL without the scope in the rifle box. He believed I had put it in there and I believed he didn’t take it out but I am still at a loss for what could’ve happened. I either sent him a second scope or refunded the money but I had insured the package for the value of both and submitted a claim for the scope. A few months went by and I continued to put constant pressure on UPS as it always takes. I finally pinched them to the point that I was told a check would be issued that day. Two days later the original Leupold scope still sealed and with a dozen labels and barcodes on it arrived at my office. No notice, no explanation, and no idea what happened
I ship all long guns USPS. Never had an issue. It seems to me that maybe, just maybe, a federal employee would think twice before stealing a firearm. But in the end, who knows?
As of a few years ago packages w ups (or it was fedex) hit the warehouse and come in and go down the conveyers and driver pulls his boxes onto the floor at the rear of his backed-up truck which sits against the belt. Picture a bunch of trucks parked backed up to the line side by side like soldiers in formation. Driver is required to load up the rear of his truck, sometimes another driver helps but rarely. Driver is required to scan all boxes once in the truck and BEFORE leaving the warehouse property, many do so usually right there at the belt w the packages going in. This will show the item is now on the truck out for delivery.
And that’s the loophole which permits thief drivers to target and steal packages - they know their route has a special address (or there are substitute drivers who happen by chance to take over a valued route, meaning w choice delivery locations). They recognize by name/address the package will be going to a precious metals or auction house or jewelry store - or gun dealer. Given reports of thefts on prized routes, security is going to eventually look to target the problem drivers. So security will send down bait packages along the conveyor belt directed to said route and thief driver. The camera will show the bait package handled by the driver and fake scanned or simply put into the back of the truck.. and the system will show the bait package was NOT scanned, ever, by the driver and certainly not in conformance w policy prior to departing w the truck, but the other packages sent down for that route will have been scanned, Therefore, the package is shown as still at the warehouse and never delivered and lost can’t locate it. The thief pulls out and goes about his route, but drops off the targeted package w a friend conspirator, or wife or girlfriend, along the route. You’d be surprised trucks may or may not have GPS devices to prove to these companies where their trucks are and if they momentarily veer off… and that there may not be uniformity across warehouses in different states as to the capabilities of security to investigate. Thief drivers are not going to keep the package for the entirety of their shift and stuff it under their shirt (unless really small) and walk it to their car in the employee parking lot in possible view of others so as to leave with it at end of shift, so it’s probable it was dropped off to a “friend” while on his/her route.
I did say eventually security will investigate. That’s because unless you are a business with a large account with UPS/FEDEX and you take it to corporate (meaning elevate it above the account manager to counsel for UPS/FEDEX) and threaten a lawsuit and or full press to move your account elsewhere, UPS/FEDEX probably isn’t going to care about several losses of lower value packages by individual sometime customers.
I’d have the same feeling as you - it’s probably stolen from a driver who had your route that shift - you need to report to police (no matter a prospective negative result) just to get an incident report and ask to have it (serial make model and report no.) filed with NCIC. You likely need to first wait some mandated UPs/FEDEX policy time limit set by the co. To expire hence proving the package is totally lost in order to convince police it’s really stolen. Also ask them to enter it into leadsonline.com or whatever service or requirement your locality requires it to be entered into a pawn/second hand dealer system. You need to then take it to your local FBI office and file a complaint of Theft from Interstate Shipment; while it’s low value not suitable for a federal prosecution, explain that you’re likely being one of several victims and request/beg the agency to at least investigate it a little for your loss to determine from UPS the identity of the driver and to confirm the driver is a known problem child, and ask the FBI to go to his residence to interview him and see if the driver spits up the gun. That agency should well know how to handle a consent and search w a UPS driver who claims “didn’t do nothing.” I opine UPS/FEDEX isnt going to recover a stolen article from their driver, they’ll only fire him.
That is, indeed, a strong possibility. Col.- hope that if there is collusion between dishonest UPS employees regarding their planned heist of your fine rifle, and their plans to possibly unload it and convert it into a cash situation. I'd suggest watching the small time gun shows and estate auctions in the general area where it "disappeared"..Most crooks are both stupid and greedy, that could lead to their downfall. I surely hope that you recover that rifle, and that the bad guy(s) ending up in prison for a long, long time. RWTF
Since we have not heard any positive reports your gun must still be missing. Has insurance started to make your claim paid in full? Or are they still taking the wait and see if it come home on its own approach. My insurance experience with them was not a happy one. Hope your is better.
They are garbage here. I paid to have a check 2 day shipped to someone. They took my money for it and then stuck it in the regular mail box outside for usps to take. It took a week and the seller was not happy because that was not the agreement and I wasn't because I paid for the 2 day air. One of their employees that got caught stealing guns off of the trucks is out and is now selling cars in Thomasvile. 2 bad eggs made an entire office look bad
I sent a double off for repair today. I spoke with the gunsmith and he said to send it uninsured. "They won't pay anyway". I sent it USPS Registered uninsured, 3 day priority. Fortunately the shipment is to the FFL license holder in his given name. In a private sale when I send to a gun to an LGS, I always hate addressing it to a shop that has "Guns" in the address. No better heads up to a thief as to what's in the package. I sent a gun to a Charleston "Gunshop" for transfer to a friend's grandson. I live 100 miles from the shop. It went out last Tuesday for delivery Friday. On Friday it went south to Jacksonville, Fl, 110 miles from Savannah, traveling 90 degrees from where it should go and 250 miles from the shop. Today, it is in Atlanta, 345 miles from Jax and 90 degrees in the other direction from me and 300 miles from Charleston. I expect tomorrow it will go to Charlotte, NC to partially enclose the circle with another stop in Wilmington NC then back to Jacksonville, driving past Charleston on I95 before directly going to Charleston. By the time it gets to Charleston it will have traveled over 1000 miles to get to the shop 100 miles from me. Gil
You might consider putting some of those tracking devices in your cases and simply ask for them to be returned. Or be really sneaky and put them under the buttplate. Folks are doing this pretty regularly with luggage and I will be considering it for future air travel, however, I've always had great luck with USPS (knocking on wood, right now).
If you ship often enough, long enough you will have a problem someday. What drive me crazy is their highly automated, highly precise tracking shipment service will lose track of a package, be unable to find it, be unable to track it until it became lost, be unable to quickly locate it for late delivery and then drag their feet forever if you file a claim. All while interacting with people who really do not worry about if it ever gets found. Go postal.
UPDATE: Good news. I filed complaint with local law enforcement when this theft happened. I recently received an email from the investigating officer. Lo and behold, he was able to make an arrest and in fact recovered my rifle. the case is in court now. I was told I would be contacted after the case is adjudicated to get the rifle. The stock blank was not recovered and the suspect stated he "got rid of it" UPS did not do squat with their investigation. they would rather just write it off. the hell with the customer. Evidently this guy would remove packages that contained guns and would take them to his truck. no cameras in the sorting area. that he got rid of it. so for the naysayers that felt I jumped the gun on my accusation of theft, I guess i was right !!!
I also hope there are meaningful consequences. We had a lesser experience, where a mover coincidentally turned up with some hunting long arms that somehow got separated from the shipment. At the time, I didn't look past the relief that they were back with me, but I was thanking a crook for the return of them.
I sold a custom built, Hawken style muzzleloader to a guy. I broke it down, carefully packaged it, and shipped it via UPS. When it was delivered, the buyer called to tell me that it was severely damaged. The box literally looked like it had been folded in half. The box was beat up, and the stock was cracked and broken beyond repair. I had him take multiple pictures with a date stamp. Then the local UPS in his area examined it and I started the claim process. After that was done, I had him send those images, rifle, and packaging back to me and I gave him a full refund while I waited on the claim. Neither of us was happy.
To no surprise they would not accept my value. Like Brian, I had originally purchased the rifle well over a decade and a half ago. I used the current sale price receipt, and the current price off of the builder's website. UPS denied the claim due to inability to prove value.
I sent all images, a narrative, and correspondence to my State Attorney General's office. After roughly six weeks, UPS paid my claim in full. I am positive it was only due to the AG's inquiry.
Brian, I am glad for you recovery, even if incomplete. Hope the thief gets real time and ordered to pay restitution for your stock blank. You can be happy that you helped take him out of a place where he could steal again. Wonder if they might also look at any federal gun laws he broke for stealing your gun in shipment? Federal time might be much greater than a state charge. Still glad you will get your gun back in time.
All these shipping companies are self insured on shipping insurance with a blanket super policy for anything major I am sure. So their first line of defense against any claim is to make the claim as cumbersome as possible. Second line is to “review” which is just a delaying tactic, then deny any they think they have any possible pretense for and then delay and deny until the vast majority get frustrated or tired enough to just go away. Most claims are too low to justify a lawyer as being cost effective and they know it. What they don’t like is when a proactive LEO or state AG takes an interest. They seem to not want their attention drawn to their actions.
One other question. Since it is now established that the theft was by a UPS employee, on their premise will it be easier to get them to pay for your blank? Their employee stole it and disposed of it so they don’t have any room to claim they don’t know what happened.
i don't know what tariffs would affect UPS's liability, but under general tort law they would be responsible for employee theft of the stock blank. Gil
Which just goes to show you- after reading 7 pages of all this confusion, anxiety, despair and grief, I am so glad that I took the route (no pun intended) I took to ship a gun. I leased a car for two days, drove from SW Ohio to Connecticut to drop off a gun that I am having worked on. And my dog and I had the time of our lives doing it! I got to scratch off a wish on my bucket list in the process, when I got to see the old Winchester plant in New Haven. I'll tell you guys the story after I drive up to pick it up when it gets done. But, I was so afraid of shipping the gun that I decided to just drive up and deliver it myself. About 700 miles one way. You just can't be too safe now days, and I'm not about to let some postal worker damage or steal my property AGAIN.
Which just goes to show you- after reading 7 pages of all this confusion, anxiety, despair and grief, I am so glad that I took the route (no pun intended) I took to ship a gun. I leased a car for two days, drove from SW Ohio to Connecticut to drop off a gun that I am having worked on. And my dog and I had the time of our lives doing it! I got to scratch off a wish on my bucket list in the process, when I got to see the old Winchester plant in New Haven. I'll tell you guys the story after I drive up to pick it up when it gets done. But, I was so afraid of shipping the gun that I decided to just drive up and deliver it myself. About 700 miles one way. You just can't be too safe now days, and I'm not about to let some postal worker damage or steal my property AGAIN.
Sounds like an interesting story unfolding Jimmy. Please keep us in the loop when you get your mystery gun back!!
I just shipped 3 guns (2 postal, 1 UPS) without any issues, so it can still be done. Boxing them up properly is critical (if you do happen to have a claim) and then knowing how both the UPS system and the postal system works helps immensely when chosing who to use. Do your homework first.
99% of all guns shipped arrive safely. But when it goes off the rails it seems shippers all want to try to cover your their ass and pretend they are not at fault. They are 100% at fault. I pay them to take my gun from point A to point B, safely and timely. I give it to them physically and entrust that will do their job. I pay them money to do a job. It is their job not to lose it. It is their job to police their own employees so they do not deliberately or accidental destroy my property. It is their job to make sure their employee does not steal packages. I hope none here ever have a gun lost or damaged in shipping but when it occurs shippers need to step up and pay their claims or find the gun. Not an unreasonable requirement.
Which just goes to show you- after reading 7 pages of all this confusion, anxiety, despair and grief, I am so glad that I took the route (no pun intended) I took to ship a gun. I leased a car for two days, drove from SW Ohio to Connecticut to drop off a gun that I am having worked on. And my dog and I had the time of our lives doing it! I got to scratch off a wish on my bucket list in the process, when I got to see the old Winchester plant in New Haven. I'll tell you guys the story after I drive up to pick it up when it gets done. But, I was so afraid of shipping the gun that I decided to just drive up and deliver it myself. About 700 miles one way. You just can't be too safe now days, and I'm not about to let some postal worker damage or steal my property AGAIN.
Sounds like an interesting story unfolding Jimmy. Please keep us in the loop when you get your mystery gun back!!