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Posted By: bavarianbrit Re : Lyon & Lyon calcutta - 03/14/10 09:30 PM
Hello,
Does anyone know about the gunmaker Lyon & Lyon of calcutta? as I see their guns sometimes advertised elsewhere.
Martin
Posted By: double rifle jack Re: Re : Lyon & Lyon calcutta - 03/16/10 04:44 PM
Lyon and Lyon was a British retailer of firearms, especially in India, but not a maker of firearms.
Posted By: PeteM Re: Re : Lyon & Lyon calcutta - 03/17/10 07:38 PM
Lyon & Lyon
Grand Hotel Arcade, 16 Chowringee Road, Calcutta India

Gunmaker & cycle agent, importers of gymkhana and sporting requisites. 1896-1940

James Lyon was born in 1859 in Lundie, Angus, Scotland. He was the son of George Lyon, a meal miller (b.1829 in Caputh, Perthshire), who in turn was the son of James Lyon, also a miller, and Mary Bisset Lyon. George was recorded in the 1861 census, but his wife (Rachel nee Dow) was not recorded; she appears to have died by that time although George was not described as a widower. George and Rachel's daughters were Georgina (b.1853 in Caputh, Perthshire) and Mary (b.1857 in Perth), and James was their only son.
George died on 13 December 1862, and the orphaned children went to live with great aunt, Louisa Bisset, who lived in Spitalfield, near Caputh. In the 1871 census James and Mary were recorded living in Caputh with Louisa Bisset, but Georgina was not recorded.

James reportedly moved to Inverness where he was a lodger living with George Batchen and his wife, Elizabeth McKenzie Batchen, and their family at 6 Innes Street (see below). He was either apprenticed to a gunmaker or simply worked for a gunmaker and if the latter, probably as a shopman. The gunmaker was probably D Gray & Co at 27 Union Street.

In about 1882 James appears to have moved to London where he worked for James Purdey. In 1885 he was recruited by F W Prike who had just taken over the management of R B Rodda & Co in Calcutta, India.

In 1890 one of George Batchen's daughters, Janet McKenzie Batchen, known as Netta (b.1863 in Knockbain, Ross-shire), went out to Calcutta where she married James on 29 September 1891. In 1895 James left R B Rodda & Co and in 1896 established his own business at Grand Hotel Arcade, 16 Chowringee Road. The firm was named Lyon & Lyon, possibly because there was another firm named Lyon & Co in India at the time. There is no record of there being any other person named Lyon being involved in the business. However, James described himself as the managing partner. His assistant was listed as G Phillips, and the firm's London agents were Colley & Co of 4 Lombard Court. James described the business as "Gun, Rifle and Revolver Manufacturers, and Importers of Gymkhana & Sporting Requisites".

In 1897 the firm were appointed agents for Joseph Lang & Sons of 10 Pall Mall, they were also agents for the Calcutta Cycle Co.

In 1899 the firm described themselves as gun and rifle manufacturers and opened a rifle range at Ballygunge. They stated that their agents were J Lyon & Co of 4 Lombard Court, these were the offices of Colley & Co.

In 1905 the partners were listed as James Lyon and G Phillips Shelton, J Broughton was listed as an assistant.

The firm was not listed again until 1920 when the proprietor was J Broughton and his assistants were W Mayer and Miss Mayer, this could imply that James had semi-retired but still a major share of the business. The firm was listed again in 1924.

In 1927 when his son, Louis, was married, James described himself as a retired Indian merchant, but in 1929 James Lyon and G Phillips Shelton were recorded as governing directors of the business, J Broughton and D J Todd were described as directors, but in later years were described as assistants (D J Todd had worked for R B Rodda & Co from 1911 to 1926). H J Connors, J Henderson and Miss S McDonald were described as assistants.

In 1931 James recorded as a retired gun manufacturer living at 31 Culduthel Road, Inverness. He had died by 1935 which was when Netta died.

In 1934 the firm was sold to F B Prike of R B Rodda & Co. At that time the employees of the firm were Miss B Ord, D J Todd, H J Connors and D F D Hazells. The business was relocated to Rodda's premises at 3 Wellesley Place.

After stocks of unsold guns were sold no further guns bearing the Lyon & Lyon name were made. In 1937 D J Todd left the firm to go to work for Manton & Co, he remained there until 1943. In 1939 S K Bannerjee was recruited as an assistant, but the firm appears to have ceased trading in 1940 the remaining staff becoming Rodda employees.

Most of the firm's guns were made in Birmingham by trade manufacturers, but some guns were imported from America and Europe.

At some time the firm were appointed gun makers to His Excellency the Viceroy and Governor-General, and they were agents for or representatives of (as were most of India's gunmakers) Westley Richards & Co Ltd, Cogswell & Harrison, W W Greener, Webley & Scott, Holland & Holland, W J Jeffery & Co, Wilkinson Sword Co and Winchester.

The firm invented their "Lethal Ball" shotgun bullet which was made for them by Kynoch. This bullet was introduced to compete with Rodda's "Rotax" bullet, Manton & Co's "Contractile" bullet, and Holland & Holland's "Paradox". These bullets were for use against dangerous soft-skinned game. The Lethal Ball could be used in cylinder or choked barrels or barrels with Paradox type rifling. It was spherical and made of two (later four) soft iron discs interlocking at right angles. These were placed in a mould into which the lead was poured. On impact, the lead pieces became detached from the iron frame. The bullets were not accurate over anything but very short range mainly because they were undersized (about 16 bore) in order to cope with choke and rifling (similar ammunition was issued to the Home Guard in the Second World War).





Pete
Posted By: bavarianbrit Re: Re : Lyon & Lyon calcutta - 03/17/10 08:33 PM
Sir,

I am gobsmacked by that reply. Such an excellent precise writeup is what I wish I could do. The research was awesome.

Regards and thanks

Martin
Posted By: PeteM Re: Re : Lyon & Lyon calcutta - 03/17/10 10:44 PM
Martin,

Stick around. There are plenty of questions that I am sure you could help answer, especially on the shotgun board.

Glad I was able to help.

Pete
Posted By: Calgary Bill Re: Re : Lyon & Lyon calcutta - 07/10/10 11:01 PM
Many thanks to Pete for his detailed research. I have a Lyon & Lyon shotgun that readers may be interested in. It is a 20 gauge sidelock ejector with nitro steel barrels likely made in the late 1890's or early 1900's. The rib is engraved in bold gold lettering "LYON & LYON. LONDON & CAlCUTTA. (J. LYON. LATE WITH JAS PURDEY & SONS LONDON.)" Each lock is engraved in gold "LYON & LYON".There is no indication who made the gun but the underside of the forend iron is marked Patent 556 which might a lead.
Posted By: Researcher Re: Re : Lyon & Lyon calcutta - 07/10/10 11:53 PM
I have noticed a number of A.H. Fox double guns going to Lyon & Lyon in the graded Ansley H. Fox records. Most notable was a gaggle of fourteen 32-inch barrel 12-gauge AE-Grades in the early 1920s all ordered with chambered for 3-inch shells. Somewhere I got the idea there was a firm by the name of Lyon & Lyon in California.
Posted By: PeteM Re: Re : Lyon & Lyon calcutta - 07/11/10 08:51 PM
Originally Posted By: Calgary Bill
Many thanks to Pete for his detailed research. I have a Lyon & Lyon shotgun that readers may be interested in. It is a 20 gauge sidelock ejector with nitro steel barrels likely made in the late 1890's or early 1900's. The rib is engraved in bold gold lettering "LYON & LYON. LONDON & CAlCUTTA. (J. LYON. LATE WITH JAS PURDEY & SONS LONDON.)" Each lock is engraved in gold "LYON & LYON".There is no indication who made the gun but the underside of the forend iron is marked Patent 556 which might a lead.


If you can date the gun to within 2-3 years, I may be able to help. I have all 7 volumes of the British Small Arms patents. Unfortunately, they are not easy to referrence without a year.

I was able to pull this, not much help.

A.J. Lyon 128,824
J Lyon '13.22,939
L.I. Lyon '68.2,096
Lyon & Lyon 279,371
A.J. Lyons '06.12,474

Pete
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