I've been thinking about getting a double rifle for awhile. I would need to keep the price reasonable as it is something I would only use every few years. I know there are some cheap guns made in turkey etc but I want to do this 1 time and want a quality gun. I was looking at the Browning because I have a few Superposed shotguns and they are well made and shoot well. It appears the Brownings were only made in 30-06 and 270. I grew up on the Oregon coast hunting deer and elk with my Dad and we always used 30-06 rifles as they were good for elk and adequate although overkill for deer. I would prefer a smaller caliber round as I doubt I'll be hunting elk again but it is what it is. The reason I would only use this gun occasionally is that I now live in Florida and I don’t deer hunt here but return to Oregon every few years to visit family.

My dilemma is that I have done a lot of online searching and can't find any info on how accurate these guns are. Most of the shots we took back then were between 100 and 200 yards as it is mountainous terrain. If these guns aren't up to that then I'm barking up the wrong tree. Any input would be appreciated.

I don't have personal experience with htem but from what I've heard from others....

The barrels were brazed together so they cannot be re-regulated by others. They were brazed in a jig and not really regulated.

Some shot good but many didn't. I wouldn't get one unless I could shoot it before buying it.

Chapuis makes a nice entry level O/U that is accurate in lighter calibers that you might want to look at.

If the bottom line is the cost then the Russian Biakals come in 308 in the O/U and you regulate the rife with a some range time. The triggers usually need work but they shoot quite well after playing with them.

devrep,
in Europe,in the 70s,I also saw them in 9.3x74R.
Mike

When I'm talking about cost, I have seen a few Brownings in the 2500-3500 range which i can live with. The Biakals and similar guns I have seen just don't float my boat. I have heard of regulation problems with the old Winchester Grand European double rifles but had not found anything on the Brownings. Maybe the same issue.

Chapuis makes some of the smaller caliber rifles that are really good. My 9.3X74 is very good with great wood to boot.

9.3x74 is a pretty hefty load for deer.

Not at all! There's no such thing as over-kill! Dead is dead. It doesn't matter if it's a 600 Nitro or a 243.

Besides, there big brown fuzzy critters in the woods around here that tend to need more than a 308.

They do make 30-30's on up.

hey Mike, if I lived where you do I'd want a big gun too!

agree dead is dead but even 30-06 does a lot of damage. I'm talking blacktails. used to have to remove a lot of blood shot meat if the deer was hit in the shoulder.

my preference would be:
.257 Roberts
.243 win
6mm Rem
7x57mm Mauser

my only motivation for using 30-06 is that I have hundreds of rounds my dad loaded plus whats left of a couple of wooden cases of M1 Garand clips my dad got from a national guard friend back in the 60's. They are armor piercing (black tip) and tracer (orange tip). he would pull the bullets and powder and use the brass for reloading.

I also still have my old J9 Mauser and his old 30-06 Remington 742 carbine.

BUT in a double rifle theres a slim slight outside chance that any of those rounds would group to regulation.

The larger slower bullets cause less bloodshot meat than faster smaller diameter ones do.

is there a reason that the smaller faster rounds would be regulated more poorly than a large round?

No, but you can only safely hold so much pressure in a break open action. There is concern about high pressure rounds. Lower is better.

I have shot two, one in 30:06, one in 375 H&H. Both were remarkably accurate. The 30:06 was regulated at the factory for 150gr loads and would shoot four of them into under 2" at a hundred yards. I recall showing the target to the instructor at my club and he was astounded. The 375 put 300gr Noslers (Federal loads) into a not much bigger group. Both were later fitted with QD scopes (G&H and Hugh Lomas, respectively) and shot just as well.
The rifles came from the custom shop with signed targets identifying the loads used.
As for strength, the Browning action has those big sidewalls and large underbites, so I wouldn't have much fear for them unless one put much hotter loads in them and shot them quite a bit.

from the reading I have done online in the last few days it sounds like there are 2 production Browning double rifles out there. The good one was purpose built with thicker walls on the receiver and an adjustable wedge for regulating that protrudes slightly at the muzzle (a CCS25 without the fancy engraving). Some of these may have been provided with the Continental Set that had a rifle bbl and a shotgun bbl. the others are on a 20ga frame with thinner walls, longer receiver and they are flush and smooth at the muzzle.

Then there are the Custom Shop guns that are another animal entirely.

this is the test target done at the factory at 40 yds for a small caliber new in the box 1980's O/U I'm considering that's in the 3K range. Can anyone give me an analysis of this and does it give any indication of how this gun will shoot (I know it is critcal to find the correct ammo). On the target is says 100 grn Silvertip.

Since Winnie doesn't make the Silver tips any more you'll need to find another type to use. It'd be easier if you handloaded.


I wish that target was labeled with the shot number and which was top pipe and which was the bottom one. It looks like a verticle stringing. Heat?
Range distance?

distance was 40 yds. no other info available.

devrep,

Look for an original Valmet O/U. My best friend has used them for deer for years in .30-06 and, I believe, 7 x 57. These guns were made in Sweden, and are unbelievably accurate for a double gun, and I've never seen one that was not regulated, either in shotgun or rifle configuration. They have excellent scope mounts, if you want to use one. Very reasonably priced, too.

I used a Valmet 412S for sporting clays competition for years with never a hiccup. Same exact receiver as the double rifles, and barrel sets will interchange on them. Just excellent quality guns.

All my best, SRH

thanks Stan. not really what I'm looking for.

I've done enough reading in the last couple of weeks to realize a few things:

the hundreds of 30-06 handloads I got from my dad are unlikely to work properly in a double rifle regulated for another load.

I don't need another rifle in or near 30-06 as I have 2 30-06 rifles already.

buying a double rifle that was not painstakingly hand regulated is risky at best.

Generally, it is a misconception that large calibres damage a lot of meat on smaller animals. Usually it is just the opposite. Bullets for these calibres are usually stoutly constructed in order to control expansion in heavy game and as such do not expand that much in a lighter animal. As an examble, about a month ago in Zimbabwe,I shot a Klipspringer, a 25 lb animal, at about 80 yards. I used my double rifle in calibre .450 #2 NE with a Hornady 350 grain RNSP at 2200 fps. The damage to this little guy was greatly less than if I had shot him with my .264 Win. Mag, 140 grain Nosler Partition, at 3200 fps!

Check this out. and they are also available in other calibers.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=313009664

kinda strange that the test target in that gunbroker ad printed identical to the one in this Vernon Carrey website photo.

http://www.verney-carron.us/Gallery/Verney-Carron-Sagittaire-O-U-Rifle-9.3x74R

nice little gun though and available in 8x57R.

actually it's the same exact gun.

Rather than simply available in 8x57R, it should probably be listed as available in 8x57JRS (.323 diameter bullet), to avoid confusion with the 8x57JR (.318 diameter bullet). Ammunition for both is available in France, and elsewhere in Europe and should not be confused. The JRS version is normally the cartridge that rifles are currently being manufactured for.

I'm considering this in 8x57JRS.

Looks like an outstanding rifle.

The 8x57JRS is a well-respected and widely-used cartridge in Europe, but there is only a very limited selection of factory ammumition available in the US. A recent online check found only Sellier and Belliot.

Cabellas in Hamburg, PA has had a Browning O/U in 8x57JRS for sale online for a year or more. It would give you another data point.

I did a search for ammo too. Slim pickens but as I'm looking for a smallish caliber double and It would be nice to have a rimmed cartridge there isn't a lot of choice that I can see. I haven't reloaded in decades but I still have all the equipment except the 8x57JRS dies and brass. There is a nice basic Merkel in the same caliber I looked at too which is at a lower cost, probably a better deal but having a few superposed shotguns I'm thinking it would be a natural fit for me.

If I were a handloader, the 8x57JRS would be my first choice "hands-down" for a double rifle.

Checking the online double rifles for sale in France recently, I found at least as many, if not more, in 8x57JRS, rather than 9.3x74R. They are used mainly for shooting driven wild boar, pretty tough to stop.

devrep,
You just use normal 8mm Mauser dies,with appropriate shell holder. 8x57IRS is a dream to load for,and you are likely to need to load your own, unless you can buy up a "pile" of the same ammo used to regulate the rifle.
Mike

Winchester is now selling 8X57JRS 195 gr Power Point ammunition at an attractive price. Midway has it listed as in stock. Probably others have it as well

As is Privi Partizan.. It's cheap but surprisingly good quality.

well I took a chance and got the 29 year old new in the box .257 Roberts O/U. Rec'd it yesterday. Going to the range saturday to try out several different loads. Got several boxes of the old silvertip 100 grn loads the gun was originally "regulated" with (I use that term loosely in conjunction with this gun). 1 box of Wisconsin 100 grn, 1 box of Nosler 110 grn Accubond +P. Also got 2 boxes of Remington 117 grn Core-lokt with my silvertip puchase I can try if I feel like I need to. Have a set of Redding dies on the way too.

Do you know of any online sources that are carrying the 8x57JRS Privi Partizan?

IIRC I got some at Graff and sons. BUT it's not listed now.

BUT!! Midway USA shows the S&B ammo in HP or SP for $23.xx per box. It shoots pretty good also and it's good quality brass for reloading.

Devrep

Since you decided to pass on the Browning CCS Herstal in 8x57JRS, would you be willing to let the rest of us know where it is located and other information?

it was at Cabelas. I was dealing with the gunroom manager , I think Joe (I tossed my notes). Price was pretty good but he was not cooperative on the trade I wanted to do. This is a Herstal Express, not a CCS25 but it was still an expensive rifle when new.

http://www.cabelas.com/brownings-browning-ccs-herstal-8x57jrs-express-superposed-rifle-2.shtml