I know that many collectors have something they have searched for years trying to locate. What is the thing you have always wanted but never found?
For me it’s Stewart Edward White’s Wundhammer rifle.

Somewhere out there is a Griffin & Howe .30-40 Krag built on a Farquarson action. The G&H serial number is a 3-digit number, although I no longer recall it.

I used to see it at the Allentown, PA gun show for years, but couldn't afford it at the time. I think the asking price back then (early 1980s) was $3,500, which was several months' pay for me at the time. It was about the most beautiful single shot I'd ever seen and I've lusted after it for at least a quarter century.

Not particularly historic, nor even usable to me today as I can't really shoot iron sights very well anymore, but it's the one that springs to mind when you ask.

I have always wanted an early Hartford Pope rifle with a .25 caliber barrel in one of Pope's early (wildcat) chamberings.

Rem40x, I remember that engraved G&H Farquharson rifle well. I examined it closely at a Baltimore show, it was on Pete Harvey's table. It had a quarter rib with express sights and I think a Lyman Alaskan on G&H top mounts. At that time my eyesight was better and I spotted one small pit in the bore. That saved me the trouble of trying to find a way to pay for it. My impression is that Emil McConnell bought it. A couple of years later it appeared again at a show, don't recall which one - Emil was an inveterate trader - but it had been spoiled, some cretin had slapped on a recoil pad.

Jack O'Connor's .270. I tried to win a copy, but did not. Something incredibly romantic about that gun since I grew up reading O'Connor. His inspiration sent me on the quest for sheep (and yes, I got a great Dall). What a man!

I was thinking about that grail question a few weeks ago and decided if some Colts went away there would be room for some S&W's.

So I swapped an extra Woodsman for a Highway Patrolman, like my Dad's (my brother inherited), and my good buddy James Tucker gave me the box, tools & paper.



Then I sold an extra New Service as the down payment for this Model of 1950 .44 Special. I had one years ago and rue the day I let it go in a trade (for a 2cd Model .44 HE & boot), so I found another with a few spots of pitting for about twice the price I paid for the first one...
Now I'm looking at a nickle plated Model 27....

Both of these shoot very well but man-o-man, the 4" .357 is LOUD!!

I guess I'm easier to please than most, but isn't that .44 a Dandy?!? And we are just about the same age.

Steve, Two nice ones, I like the older S&W's, they are all very well made. For years I carried a custom triplelock rechambered from .455 to 45 Long Colt in the woods. One day when I needed something else I was offered way more money than I thought it was worth so it went.

40X The rifle you are looking for may be No. 636, I don't know where it is today.

MP, you're being messed with. My Holy Grail is OH, I already have it. However, I'm still looking for more.

I love the American pre-war customs by Griffin and Howe, Hoffman Arms, and R.G. Owen and always get excited by new finds. But my Holy Grail would be an original, unmolested John Rigby .416 Rigby made in the 1920s or 1930s. Mike Schwandt sold a fantastic example a couple of years ago but the price was pretty staggering at the time. If the same gun were to come along again, I wouldn't repeat the same mistake.

Here is my holy grail. And it is for sale right now too, but I can't afford it. This is the second one I coulda/shoulda bought. .45 Creedmoor rifle



Brent

Mine may not exist. I've been looking for years for a rifle by Harry Pope while he worked with Joseph Singer in Los Angeles following the San Francisco Earthquake. To further complicate matters, I hope it will be on a highwall action with Singer's triggers. Any center fire caliber will be acceptable!

There is a G&H HiWall in .35WCF that is famously engraved by Joe Fugger with a miner panning gold, there are inlaid gold flecks in the pan. I saw this rifle around 1955 in Judson Darrow's shop in Connecticut. It is illustrated in Prudhomme's Gun Engraving Review and the 1958 Gun Digest, and appeared in Safari Outfitters 1972 catalog. For a while it was out West but made its way to Long Island a few years ago where it was in the hands of Tom Bertolino, a friend of decades. Tom had no idea I was interested in it and sold it to a well known collector for what rumor says was 15g.

There is a G&H HiWall in .35WCF that is famously engraved by Joe Fugger with a miner panning gold, there are inlaid gold flecks in the pan. I saw this rifle around 1955 in Judson Darrow's shop in Connecticut. It is illustrated in Prudhomme's Gun Engraving Review and the 1958 Gun Digest, and appeared in Safari Outfitters 1972 catalog. For a while it was out West but made its way to Long Island a few years ago where it was in the hands of Tom Bertolino, a friend of decades. Tom had no idea I was interested in it and sold it to a well known collector for what rumor says was 15g.

My wants are relatively mundane (and yes, I've "found" them all at various times but never at times when I could afford them....): a fancy pistol-gripped "Special Sporting" Win 1885 Lo-wall 25-20 SS or .32-20 in great shape; a Colt Bisley 7 1/2" .38-40 in great shape, and an LC Smith Ideal Grade "short 10" (did I mention, the "great shape"?).

What I mean by "great shape" is lightly enough used so you can get some sense of what they were like when they were new, but used enough that I feel OK shooting the heck out of 'em and can invent great tales about their former uses and users.....(How many Beesleys DID 'ole Doroteo Arango pack, anyway? I've got at least one of them and have been offered several more....plus Lugers, other thumbusters of several brands, etc).

Well Guys this is tougher than choosing your bride, but here goes... mine is Ernest Hemingway's Griffin and Howe 1903 Sporter. I understand after his widow Mary died they [his guns] were sold to several FAMOUS antique dealers, not firearms dealers and they kept selling rifles and shotguns for several years, long after the real rifles were gone. This obviously confusing the issue of the real Hemingway guns. There was bad blood between Mary and Hemingway's sons so she received his entire estate and did not share. Bad move for History! Jerry

There is a story in the latest Shooting Sportsman (Sept/Oct 09) about Hemingway guns.

My Holy Grail would be any rifle built by the late Ray Price. I worked for Ray for a few years just after he retired from Phelps Dodge Mining in Bisbey AZ when he opened his shop (Cochise Custom Guns )in Sierra Vista, AZ. He later moved to Wenatchee, WA. A couple of Ruger #1s are on Puglisi's web page, that he had a hand in building, which were engraved by Ken Warren. http://www.pugsguns.com/findItem.action?id=1772
Terry

Mike, I have the best Ideal Grade short ten in the country, in my opinion. I would have a hard time turning it loose, but you never know. I like oddball Parkers, especially big ones. Unfortunately, my Ideal is Damascus, but it is close to new and you would love it. I would love to own another Oberlies rifle if you know where one may be hiding.

Eightbore, I'm still looking for 1903 by Oberlies for myself. seems when I find them I'm gun poor and when I'm flush no Oberlies.
There are several people looking for them as well so that makes it a little harder. No article from me about him until I acquire one ;-).

Which one, he had about five .270's?

Michael, "gun poor" or "just plain poor" are the only excuses I have for not taking proper advantage of the last two or three JO guns I had a chance at, some with assistance from participants on this forum. I'll try not to make the same mistake again. Bill Murphy

Michael: With your wealth of knowledge of pre-war gunmakers, I imagine this will be he only time I will ever get to nudge you a little in gentlemanly and good natured fun, but I believe O'Connor had around a dozen .270's during his life. His favorites being a pair built by a young guy named AL BIESEN, that he called RIFLE 1 AND RIFLE 2. They were virtually identical and both built on Pre-64 Model 70 Featherweight barrelled actions. As I always say when we talk on the phone...hurry with a NEW BOOK...my copy of YOUR FIRST ONE IS FALLING APART AND IT'S MY SECOND COPY! Warmest Regards Jerry

I second the notion of a new BOOK.Smile Whitey

Eightbore, if I had the $$ to even THINK about it, Damascus barrels on your Ideal would NOT be a barrier! But I don't....I'm back to collecting pop cans and wheel weights to keep me in shells (You have no idea how hard it is to keep a gun collection together in Sou Cal when a shopping cart is your "safe"!). But I envy you your Elsie and am glad it's in the right hands.

I think there's more than a little confusion about O'Connor and his .270's. Particularly in later life, Jack had a number of custom rifles made that he probably didn't hunt with.....and of which there isn't much public record.

Anderson's 2002 book on O'Connor at least attempts to present documentation of those guns Jack did hunt with. Here's his documentation of .270's Jack owned through the Model 70's "Number 1" & "Number 2".

1925 Winchester Model 54 .270 sold in 1932 to pay doctor bills.

1937 Mauser Sukalle-barreled, Linden stocked .270
Jack says he killed more game with this rifle than any other. Given to a friend in 1966.

1943 Winchester Model 70 .270 stocked by Linden. Killed 1st Bighorn Ram, Mountain Goat, Caribou, and moose with this rifle.

1946 Mauser Sukalle-barreled, Owen stocked .270. Carried on his 1946 pack trip to BC. Later re-stocked by Biesen and given to son Brad.....who killed his 1st ram with it in 1951. Later stolen.

1953 Winchester Model 70 .270 stocked by Biesen. Biesen turned down the standard barrel and cut it back to 22". This was Model 70 .270 "Number 1"......sold to a friend in the 70's.

1959 Winchester Model 70 Featherweight .270 stocked by Biesen. This is Model 70 "Number 2" still owned by the O'Connor family.

This last rifle was at the ACGG show in January 2009. Unfortunately, with a misleading and inaccurate accompanying sign. Brad O'Connor was at the show also.

If I was going to tab an O'Connor rifle as my Holy Grail......I would likely choose the Linden Mauser .270, or the Minar Springfield 30-06......Jack's first "commissioned custom".

Good detective work and I'm glad you took the time to sort this out. Do you remember that the O'Connor Minar Springfield was at Reno the first day only when we had the display. The only time I got to play with it, It has a good home at this time.

We knew that only after speaking with you Saturday afternoon, Michael.

We were disappointed it wasn't there on Saturday or Sunday. We surely would have enjoyed seeing it. It's unlikely we'll get the chance again.

Jack O'Connor had a long and interesting career writing about hunting and custom rifles. Certainly he was adept at both. I enjoyed his sensible approach to what he considered a good custom rifle. And he went through the exercise of multiple iterations of custom rifles until he got what he considered his favorite.......his Winchester Model 70's stocked by Biesen.

However, Jack was 51 and 57 respectively when those rifles were delivered. He had accomplished a whole bunch of hunting, and written thousands of words about his hunting trips before he ever had them.

Regarding Cactus Jack, I've got two quick questions I hope someone can answer.

First, is there really a forend screw in the M70 Fwt. shown above, and if so, why?

Second, does anyone know what happened between he and Biesen in the later years, as referenced in "Jack O'Connor Catalogue of Letters"? Any other comments on that "book" would be interesting to hear.

Good shooting.

There is. Presumably received by a threaded lug soldered to the barrel. A feature not unusual in 50's custom rifles.

I guess I wasn't aware of anything that "happened" between O'Connor and Biesen. The Biesens recently built an O'Connor commemorative Model 70......"Number 3".

Pictures here.....

http://www.biesen.com/news.html

Brno ZG 47 in 10.75x68

Holy Moly! What a dilemma!

I won't know what my Holy Grail is until I see it!

It seems that I have found my Holy Grail each time I add a new treasure to my collection.

I collect 1903 Springfield after market gadgets and doo-dads. Most of my favorite pieces are one-of-a-kind made by highly skilled custom gun makers and many may have come from home shops.

One piece that stands out is a receiver sight with many characteristics of a Lyman 48. If I find an 03 gadget that equals this one in craftsmanship or just plain appeal that will be my Holy Grail until the next nifty doo-dad comes along.

Gary Bush

My Holy Grail is going to take a different turn... but it is a single shot.

I have always loved the movie "Jaws." Ever since, I thought it would be cool to have one of the Greener Harpoon guns like Quint used on the great white. I remember seeing them in the H&R catalogs when I was in high school. I remember seeing them in Navy Arms catalogs when I was a new teacher starting out, and VERY poor. Then saw a couple at Butterfields' auctions, bid on them, but not enough. Then, there was one at a Cabelas a few weeks ago, but was sold before I could win the lottery, or think of what to sell to get it.

What would I do with it? I don't know. When I had my parents' place I could have shot a deer from the front door as he was eating apples off the tree and could prevent him from running off into a neighbor's yard or pool. But then sold the property. Soo... the search goes on.

I suppose it would be just as cheap to make my own version with a machinist's help using a T/C Contender carbine and sacrificing a .357 barrel (I have both ).
Perhaps one of you has one gathering dust, and perhaps I have something you have a hankering for....

Lou M

Mannlicher-Schoenauer converted to Left Hand. As far as I know Pachmayr made a few such conversions in the 1950s.
With kind regards,
Jani

I would have to say to win the power ball and buy MP's collection.

Various knowing friends have told me that at least one Maynard rifle with a Harry Pope barrel is known to exist; for me that would be the rifle to have. If someone has pictures and can post them it would be much appreciated.

Heym Modell HR-38 Exclusive in kal. 7x65R. 'R' stand for Bill Rugers No. 1 of course.

Custom 39 Marlin,preferably by Steven Dodd Hughes.

Or a low wall, by same.

Brent

You guys are relatively lucky, note the word 'relatively'(G). Most of the others' holy grails are unavailable for various reasons, and all you guys hafta do is shell out the shekels!(BG) I mean, after all, you don't hesitate to spend even more on an automobile, a possession that will soon wear out and may well become a source of near-embarrassment in only a few years(VBG)!

While OTOH a custom rifle by SDH will be a source of major pride as well as impeccable braggin' rights for not only your lifetime but also for many generations to come. Maybe that routs deserves a little more serious consideration...
Regards, Joe

( I'm truly flattered guys, and I'd love to own one myself! I'm really lucky I get to shoot Kurts' a couple times per year! I just posted pix of a Marlin M-94 on whitey's thread. )

More pain and suffering having to see what I can't afford...

Thanks
Brent

It's sad to realize that nobody has craving for the finest repeating rifle ever made. I would take Savage 1899 with say F grade engraving plus spare .410 shotgun barrel.

Mine is a L.R. (Bob) Wallack, in anything 270 up ..... non wildcat. I've only been looking for a year or so, so the lust is still high. We are related. I never met him but I think it would be something special to hand down in the family.

Al

I think this is a Wallack in .35-Whelen. If the owner sees this post he may correct me.

Make mine a CD deluxe please.

I went to another thread to ask about the 99 Presentation which was apparently a product of the late sixties. Is this too late to be a "good 99"?

Wallack Springfield is indeed a .35 Whelen. I am away from home so cannot give details, but it is rather lightweight and has 19" barrel, no recoil pad. Heavy kicker, somewhat mitigated by good stock shape. Also very loud, every pine cone for an acre around comes down when you shoot it in the woods. On balance a serious hunting rifle.

The guys over on the Savage forum use s/n 1,000,000 as the cut off, pre-mil 99's are the equivalent of pre-64 Winchesters, sometime in the late 1950's, early 1960's I believe.

Just a glimpse of the Grail puts me back on my horse in full armor ...... to follow the quest!!

Al

I just sold an original 1895 Savage 303 with 1/2 octagon bbl, one of those first ones that were actually made by Marlin. Wonder how that one would qualify?
Regards, Joe

That has everything going for it, how was the condition? Even the early post-mil guns get some respect in high condition as do most.358's and all .284's.

Was an excellent shooter after a modest recrown job, but receiver had gone to silver and barrel blue was thinning. Wood needed replacement like a dead man needs a coffin. Too bad.
Regards, Joe

I have long coveted a high grade Savage 99 but they are very pricey and rare. I refer you to the RIA auctions of a few years ago when several very high grade 99's sold. Wonderful guns would be an understatement.I would rate the engraving and stock work as superior to the Winchesters of the era in their design and execution.More like high end shotguns in their fineness of detail and delicacy.

This one changed hands a few Weeks ago.

I’ve wondered if this was a real rifle or just an artist rendition.

http://24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubb...899#Post3208301

a thread from 24 hour featuring an unusual (and splendid) G&H 99 owned at various times over the years by Terry Buffum and by me.

Well, this is a neat thread and I thought I'd share my story since I found and still own my Savage "Holy Grail".

I'm fairly new to this site and have enjoyed reading older posts in my free time to get me up to speed on some of the topics that I find interesting. Just about two years ago I walked into a small gun shop and walked out with a Savage 1899 A that was manufactured in 1901 with an interesting stick of wood to say the least. I have been told that it is one of only a few that were ever factory produced in bird's eye maple and that it may be the only one that was in "honey blonde" instead of a more "caramel" color. So far only two have surfaced and been documented (one of each). There may be others, but who knows.

The story is below as I told it on the Savage collectors site.

"So, back in December I got lucky and walked into an small shop and got a really good deal on an original configuration 1899 A with a unique Bird's Eye Maple Stock. I got a lot of help here and have spent the last few months trying to piece together what I could to learn about its' history. I said at the time I would report what I learned when I was done, so here it is.

Below is the gun, it has a 26 inch round barrel with no rust or pitting, good case coloring on the lever, a plain shotgun type buttplate, and no crown. The wood is special order Birds Eye Maple and has a Schnabel forearm and straight grip stock with no checkering, it has period correct eyes for shoulder strap. The serial number is on the buttplate, forearm, stock heal, and receiver. The historian at Griffin & Howe says the front blade sight is German silver in the standard Rocky Mountain pattern, with the rear sight being in the Savage Rocky Mountain pattern Buckhorn type. Caliber is .303. There are no numbers on the cartridge counter.

Savage Completed the gun and it was accepted from the warehouse on June 26,1901. It was later sent to a show in Detroit in January of 1903. Savage Records call it the "Detroit Show". After the show it was sent back to Savage and was sold on March 16, 1903 to a New York City based sporting goods store called VonLengerke & Detmold. This is as far as John Callahan's letter, a copy of which is attached below, could take me. Further research showed that VonLengerke & Detmold was purchased by Abercrombie & Fitch before WWII and that after WWII, Griffin & Howe bought out Abercrombie & Fitch. I sent a letter to Griffin & Howe with pictures requesting information. I followed up with a call and the historian that they had the information I was looking for. For $50 I got the letter you see below as well as photo copies of the pages of the original ledgers from 1903 & 1904. From the records I learned the gun was on display at the store in Manhatten but did not sell in 1903 so it was rolled over into the inventory for 1904. On November 18,1904 the gun was sold to Malcolm Baxter for $25.00. The price included a $5.00 upcharge for the Birds Eye Maple stock. This was confirmed in the Ledger. It was a real relief to finally see the description of the wood in writing on this gun that is almost 107 years old. It confirms without a doubt that it is all original.

Census records that were included in the $50 research fee shows that Malcolm Baxter was born in 1868 and he was the Vice President of a Coal Company and that he lived within a few blocks of the store in Manhattan with his extended family.

The information I was able to get confirms what a lot of you guys said, that the gun is right, and in the original configuration that it was made in in 1901.

Many thanks to all those who helped me piece this together."

Roger


1899 A









VonLengerke & Detmold Ledger pages:






The line with mine is just below the X:



Savage Historian Letter



Griffin & Howe Letter



Census page with Malcolm Baxter and Family information.

Roger,

A great rifle and I love the paperwork you now have with it. I'm not a Savage collector and would have thought that was a restock. Great find and thanks for sharing.

Romac, Never get tired of that Gun!

Gary "Grogel"

I have many 99s and that is an extraordinary rifle, not just for its extreme rarity but for its, if you will pardon the expression, beauty. Interesting that the original buyer was wise enough not to have the factory checker it.

My 'Holy Grail' is to shoot 10 shot 'X' ring groups at 800, 900 and 1,000 yards with a 45/90 Sharps Borchardt replica made with my own hands. Somehow I think I may die of old age before that happens, but I will give it my best shot. lol.

Harry

Harry, Good to hear from you, how is the Borchardt coming along?

Hello Michael,

The work is progressing albeit slowly, I took the ends off two of the fingers on my right hand, with a vegetable slicing mandolin of all things, it's taken some months for them to heal up and the nerve andings still scream.

Now Autumn is here my Arthritis is playing up. That also slows me down. I've just made several coils springs for the sear and safety plungers and three firing pin springs. Quite interesting work making the tools to form the springs, but difficult to get things right first time due to the 'spring tension' in the piano wire.

Given a mild winter I may be well on the way to getting it finished by next Spring.

Regards,

Harry

Bill, I guess "good" is a relative thing, but I sure wish I had bought one of the Model 99PE Presentation Grade rifles back in '68/'70 when they were made. Especially in .284 Win.