Just acquired a beautifully engraved (metal and wood) 1923 gun in 16x16 and a proof caliber of "6.4x55". The gun is not signed but James Julia sold it as "undoubtedly" made by Adolph. Others have now told me it's probably not but might have been engraved in Suhl by one of the craftsmen who did his engraving work (Fritz Heimbeck?). The caliber has been guessed as a 6.5 Swedish which means it was not made for the American market but for the Swedish market since the 6.5 Swedish wasn't popular in the US until the 1970s. Therefore they say it's probably not an Adolph. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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Lovely example of the Suhl mechanics. It is possible that Adolph performed the stock work but I'm confident that all other aspects were completed in Suhl and the sporting weapon experienced proof in Suhl in September of 1923 with a ledger number 436. For about the 1st 6 months of the period when the Suhl proof facility actually began dating their wares, they toyed with the idea of a ledger like Zella Mehlis but apparently it did not find favour.
I am of the opinion that Adolf peddled it & was a firearms merchant. Display any other marks forward of the flats to the forend hanger & the mechanics marks might point toward a maker in Suhl.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Cut some images loose & post so that they can be closely inspected. I hazard a guess it is a Blitz action by F.W. Keßler of Suhl. Check the standing breech for a monogram.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
The bullet weight is the 10 grammes. Make a wax chamber cast to ferret out the calibre demon.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Probability is very, very high that the sporting weapon is a F.W. Keßler Selbstspannerdrilling System Tip-Top & attained some form of protection:
"System Tip-Top is my own construction and protected by law. The gun receives a superior fashion and better balance by the short locks as other Hammerless with locks affixed on the trigger-plate."
More than likely a D.R.G.M.
I still see a very low probability that firearms merchant Adolph contributed much effort.
Loose some of those images.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
I'd search for an American calibre in the neighbourhood of 0.25" calibre 2 1/2" in length. Did Adolph fancy such. I'll have to consult his catalogue. I don't think 0.25" Krag?? too long.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Maybe 25-35-117? or 25 Special 123 grain? Wax cast is in order.
Loose some images & post additional.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Many thanks Raimey, I've sent some pix via email. Sam
Many thanks. I've spent some time working on a sea-wall issue @ Apollo Beach & one of our neighbours hails from St. Pete.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
There is very little doubt in my mind that the caliber of this drilling is 6.5x55 Swede. Rimless caliber drillings are uncommon, but are sometimes seen. The link, above, clearly describes a rimless extractor. There is a special issue of "DER WAFFENSCHMEID" about Fred Adolph and his guns. He clearly was more a marketer of Suhl made guns and "Newton" class cartridges. It is hard for me to believe he would release a gun without having his name on it.
Mike
Ford:
I took English as a 2nd language with Southern being 1st so are you yea or nay on the chambering being the 6.5X55 Swede? If yea & the client a sportsman in the U.S. of A., why 6.5X55mm when Adolph had his own cartridge demons?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Raimey,
I don't have the rifle "in hand", to measure the chamber; but I believe it is 6.5x55 Swede. It has marks consistent with that, and a rimless extractor(according to the link). As to why, I have no idea other than the customer wanted it. Since it is not marked Adolf, I don't know if it is one of his. He was a self promoter and would have likely had his name on it.
Mike
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
This clearly shows a rimless extractor, but I don't know what the second spring loaded plunger is for. The rifle firing pin comes in at a strange angle.
Mike
That does not look like Adolph quality checkering and most of his work was not signed. Too bad Petrov is not around when cases like this come up. FWIW.
Art
I think the 1923 proof makes it doubtful that it is an Adolph gun. I think by that date, his business was a bust. I have never seen an Adolph gun that was not signed.
Raimey and Mike, I've turned the "Fred Adolph" over to my favorite gunsmith, Mike Merker now that I'm back in Hendersonville, NC. He's going to repair/replace the rifle firing pin, do a chamber cast to solve this caliber thing once and for all. BTW, we tried a 6.5x55 Swede and a 6.5x55 Mauser and both of their cartridge bodies were to thick to seat in the chamber. He's guessing the cast will confirm it's a 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, even though the proof mark says "6.4x55". Will let you guys know what we learn. Thanks for everyone's help on this.
Can't wait to hear....
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
It very well could be 6.5x54MS then. The head diameter of the MS cartridge is smaller than the other two. The proofmarks were never intended to represent the nominal caliber( until 1939 law), rather they showed actual measurements.
Mike
Raimey and Der Ami, not sure I updated you. The gunsmith chamber cast proved the Adolph is indeed a 6.5x54 Mannlicher Shoenauer. I got some ammo from Selway Armory and can't wait to try it.
Lovely to hear. I'm curious if current factory ammo drops right in or if you have to tweak it a bit.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse