doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com OT-Brass shot shell BP loading

I have read the strings about reloading brass shot shells using BP, especially the warnings about how troublesome it can be, but I still want to try it in a '89 Remington (yes, I have had it checked out by a competent smith)
I have a simple question because I can't just seem to grasp conversion from "grains" to "drams". (SP v. BP) Do I have it right that to use my digital powder scale to make up a 3 dram BP`load using a coversion table which shows, approximately, that 3 drams = 82 grains, that I weigh out 82 grains of the BP on the scale to get to the right load?
I apologize in advance for this really basic question but you all have helped me to become a sxs convert and this is one more step in the conversion.

JGreen;
First, Troublesome is a matter of mind set. In comparsion to cranking out a 1,000 rds on a progressive loader then Yes, they are troublesome. For loading a smaller quanity of rounds for an older gun for limited use or for hunting, they can be loaded with virtually no expense for equipment, just a little time. My own first experience with loading shotshells was with all brass shells using then available DuPont Bulk smokeless some 50+ yrs ago. It was quite satisfactory at the time & I still load some all brass along for my Lefevers, to be used for hunting & find this not to be troubling at all.
2nd; A dram is a wt & is 1/16th of an ounce & does figure out to 82 grains for a 3 dram load, which can be weighed on a powder scale exactly as that, just like weighing smokeless. Personally, I have loaded BP for both breech & muzzle loaders & never weigh mine. I normally load an equal "Volume" of powder & shot so depending on the quanity I intend to load I will either use one of the little adjustable measures marked in oz of shot & drams of powder & set to the shot load I want & just dip away. If loading a few more shells I set up an old Lyman #55 powder measure & set to the desired drams & then use a single stage loader with powder hopper empty & flick the charge bar both ways to drop the shot. A check weigh to to be certain your measure is about right is of course good but no need to weigh individual loads for a shotgun or even to be concerned if the measure is ± a grain or so from the theoretical dram weight.

Black powder is easier in my opinion. It is not so critical and a few grains either way doesn't seem to make a jot of a difference. I just use old powder measures that were graduated for drams. I find that 2 1/2 dram black powder and 1 ounce of shot is a well balanced load in a 12 bore. I just use ordinary plastic cases and use them just once. Card and felf wads are a must; the long slow hot burn will start to melt plastic wads and cause a real headache at cleaning time. Primers are not critical either. Lagopus.....

Good advice from 2P and Lagopus. My only disagreement is with the loading of Brass shells at all. The best thing to do with brass shells is to sell them on ebay. A few years ago someone left 10 Remington brass shells on the range near my house. I grabbed them up and sold them for $3 each, on ebay. Later I bought a case of Magtech brass from Graf's and got all equipped up to load them for a Parker I had with .750" bores. After loading one box, cleaning, gluing the overshot card in and cleaning again, I sold the whole mess to someone in New York. Black powder loading is easy enough in paper or plastic shells but loading brass shotgun shells is something I do not have time for. JMO, of course.

There is a lot of good information here about black powder and brass shells.
http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html

Track of the Wolf sells this reproduction dipper

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(ghxtt02...m=SHOT-DIPPER-D


I have picked up several originals over the years on ebay. You want an adjustable one. You can make them yourself for set volumes.

Pete

I load BP in both brass and plastic.

Magtech brass is thin walled and works best with 11ga. wads. The brass gets dirty and has to be scrubbed if you like shiny shells. I scrub mine about every fourth time. I rinse them in soapy water with a bore mop every time.

Loading is simple, equal volumes of powder and shot (about 1 oz for skeet) and enough nitro card and cushion wads to bring the over shot wad to within a 1/4 or less from the end of the shell. Seal the overshot wad with about any glue, I use Elmers white glue. Hint, do not drop the box of shells, the over shot wad will come loose.

Plastic hulls take regular 12 ga. nitro and cushion wads, some brands of the plastic wads will melt and coat the barrel. You will likely need a reloading press for plastic hulls because the crimp ends make it difficult to insert the wads by hand.
Unfortunately nitro and cushion wads can be hard on the fingers of the press's wad guides.

Black powder is black powder and is only a hassel to those who do not enjoy the smoke and stink. Reloading brass shotshells is like loading a very short muzzleloader.

Good Luck
RPr

All,
You have been very helpful to a "newbie" to this. I plan on using size ffg based on my reading. Any thoughts on actual BP vs. a Pyrodex, etc.
Thanks again.

Some fun reading on BP reloading if you haven't already seen them...

PDF File

Web Page

JGreen,

Pyrodex is harder to ignite. Some actually drop a couple of grains of black in 1st. It also has to be compressed more. Both burn hot, need to be cleaned up after shooting. The original Pyrodex formula did not produce enough smoke to make black powder shooters happy, so they had to change it.

What ever you decide, I would start with lighter loads than 3 drams. You will feel a real thump. But you may already know that. I would start with 2 1/2 drams and 1 oz. Work your way up to all out pheasant, duck loads. You will find a happy medium that fits your bill. Make sure you use a lubed wad, it makes clean up easier. Write the load on the shot card, so you know what you have done.

One of the big pluses of black powder... You can customize the load all you want. Just follow standard reloading safety precautions.

I purchased an 1881 Pieper Diana. When it gets back after the damascus is refinished, it will live on black powder hand loads just as my Lefever G does currently.

Pete

Note that when loading by the equal volume method a 1oz shot measure will hold about 2½ drams of BP. Both will vary a little according to shot size & hardness or powder granulation, charcoal used & "Moon Phase" on the day it was loaded etc, etc, but none of this is generally significant. As PeteM said this is a very good starting point for 12ga. In 12ga I prefer 3FG powder for i or 1 1/8oz loads but generally switch to 2FG if going to 1¼ oz. According to an old Rifleman industry standard for BP volume is .115 CuIn per Dram & volume for 1oz shot seems to be about .288 CuIn. Shot volume calculated from Hercules/Alliant Reloaders Guide.