doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Cogswell and Harrison Question

At my local gunshop is an interesting Cogswell and Harrison that I am interested in, but know nothing about Brittish guns or this guns particular value.

The gun is a 12 ga. BLE with sideplates, SFE, SG, SST, 14 1/2 LOP. The checkering is very fine and the action has gone grey and has full fine scroll engraving. It also has a third fastener and 27 1/2 inch barrels with rifle slings. The barrels are marked with two dates 1860 and 1900 and are stamped with Liege and Paris on them. The owner thinks that the barrels are French, but I have been doing some reading and think that this gun may have come from C&H's Paris gun shop. In-letting is super fine and it has an silver initial chevron that is engraved with the previous owns initials. I am going to go back today and see if it is a self-opener and do a fine walk through of the gun. The gun is in 90% condition, being it is an older gun.

The asking price is $1,000. At this price, is this something I should jump on?

David it sounds as if the gun or at least the barrels are French. Sling swivels on a shotgun are usually continental unless it's a fowler. 27 1/2" barrels that are uncut are another clue. Coggies can be very nice guns. Coggies are one where the rule "Buy the gun not the maker" is very true.

David,

The gun had to pass proof some where. Here are some of the French proof marks:
http://www.damascus-barrels.com/files/Damascus-Barrels_dot_com_French_Proofmarks.pdf

Here are the Belgian proof marks:
http://damascus-barrels.com/bp.html

Sorry, don't have the British proof marks up yet.

Pete

David:

You can tell nothing of the origin of the barrels from the swivels or barrel length. While it's entirely possible that it has been rebarreled on the continent, it's also true that what was ordered was what was delivered. The only way to tell is the proof marks on the flats and water table. What are they?

I had a Coggie, fancy back BLE with assisted opener. Rib marked with London and Paris address and the proofmarks were Austrian. Barrels were the somewhat common Arcus Compressed Steel. The C and H records did not have the gun in them, but as I recall it was in the 30,000 range [don't hold me to the range] but appeared to be from the late 20s or early 30s.

Thanks for the replies.

I went and looked at this gun again and took notes. I wish I had taken a picture of the barrel flats --this is a strange situation.

First, the action is serial numbered 203506 and the same number appears on the forend. However this number does not appear any where on the barrels or barrel flats.

The barrels do have the self-opening device (long rectangular boxlike). and everything is matched and fitted very nicely to the action. The barrels are a off-face. The swivel sling on the barrels is held on by two screws and can be removed.

The rib is marked "ACIER UNIVERSAL" "Manufacture Liegeoise D'Armes A Feu Liege Fondee 1866 Grand Prix Paris 1900." They also have the words "Cook Erill" with the symbol of a crown and the letters "ML" underneath.

Underneath is a circle with the letters "E, L, G" in a triangular pattern. The "Cook Erill" stamps are present. The barrel flats also have the following number P1K633.3. One of the barrels is stamped with the number 190506. The barrels are 2 3/4 and choked .015 and .030.

My suspicion was that this was a continental that had been re-barreled and then brought back to the U.S. after the second world war. The guy working behind the counter (an acquaintance that I shoot with occasionally) said that is the story he received from the seller (it is on consignment). Apparently, I lot of people have looked at this gun and the shop has tried to do some research to no avail including a few phone calls to Doug Tate. Hence the price of $1,000. A couple of screw are buggered, but not too bad.

The engraving and the trigger look very similar to this gun only in not as pristine condition:

ELG is belgian.

The gun is Belgian proofed. It was proofed between 1892 and 1924. After 1924 the barrel weight 1K633.3 was no longer done in decimals. They were made by ML, MANUFACTURE LIEGEOISE D’ARMES À FEU.
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/art...%20feu%20gb.htm

ML produced some very decent guns. They also produced some real clunkers. They were a very large house.

The barrels are fluid steel by Cockerill, a large Belgian steel maker.

Nice looking gun. Interesting single trigger. I do not have enough ML catalogs to id the model.

Pete

What is the Coggie serial number? I can't remember who has the Coggie records, but I need a letter if anyone knows. Many Coggies are assisted opening but are not true self openers. Your description of a "box" would seem to suggest a true self opener. I'll have to look at mine to see if it has a "box".

This could be a Belgian make fake. I have seen a Belgian made "Watson Bros"
It may well be a reasonable gun, but not a Coggie, beware.