doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com RBL 16 or AyA 4/53? Your opinions please!!!

Sounds nice, but my 20 gauge was advertised at 5 lb 14 oz. On a postal scale it weighed exactly that without the forend, 6 lb 4 oz with it on. Still a nice light gun, but not what they said.



I don't like CSMC's lying about delivery dates. I paid in full for a 28 gauge one year ago and was told to expect delivery in February or March. I gave up in June and ordered the AYA. Even though it is a 20, instead of a 28, and it weighs nearly half pound more, I still think I'm way ahead for barely over half the price of the RBL.

I do like the fact that the RBL is made in America, and I've heard good things about their service after the sale. If you are into beavertails, single triggers, or pistol grips they are also a lot easier to get on an RBL.

I am going to chime in here to comment about Spanish steel. While undoubtedly there were some Spanish guns with soft steel, I have disassembled Urbiolas, AyAs, Laronas, Arrietas, and Ugartecheas and found that all these guns were made from properly harden parts --no soft steel.

If you decide to by the AyA, buy with confidence that you are buying a quality handmade gun.

Where the RBL triumphs over an AyA is precisely that it is a machine made gun. Thus, all the screws inside, hammers, sears, and all the other parts are machine made and fit perfectly. The AyA will have small rough unfinished handmade screws inside and file marks from the gunsmiths who made those parts. But, everything where it counts and on the outside will be finished properly.

Now in IMHO the RBL falls short in many ways. The engraving does not look right to my eye, nor does the scalloped action. I shot several rounds of skeet with a 20 ga. RBL with a SST, SFE, and pistol grip and it felt dull and unexciting in my hands. In comparison, I shoot a 16 ga. Arrieta 578 from John Boyd's shop. I let the owner of the RBL shoot my Arrieta and he was amazed by it and wanted to trade me (plus cash) on the spot for it. I respectfully declined.

If I were to order a 16 ga. RBL, I would make sure that is had double triggers, a SFE and a SG it the hopes that it would be more lively. Also, if you do some shopping and are willing to buy a used but not abused gun you may find several alternatives to a RBL or a 4/53 in this market for $3,000. Finally, I am not so sure that the RBL will always hold value as many claim. I recently saw a nice RBL that was shot very little for $2500. Where new Spanish guns really loose value is in the upper end of the gun market --say about $6000. That is where you take a beating on resale. One the other hand, on the low end of the market I have actually made money on every Spanish gun I have owned.

I've gotten the first two RBLs and will likely order more. I'm pleased and very pleased with the two I have. I've been intrigued from the get go that Tony can make such a nice gun in the U.S. of A., and the technology he has applied to this product -- the titanium-gold plated working parts, the cryo-pattern stress relief of the barrels to prevent any heat problems from prolonged shooting and the Tuff-Bore treatment to allow the use of any kind of shot.

I'm sure in the rest of my life I'll not put the number of rounds through these RBLs that my most often used Fox doubles have digested, so I'll never really know who the longevity champ is.

My 1967 experience with the Eusabio Arizagas that Jack O'Connor was so keen on was enough for me with Spanish guns!!!

My 20ga RBL is pretty heavy @ 6 3/4 #. Exhibition wood, PG with grip cap, BTFE and CT's all add up. That said, I like the gun. It is a great gun for clays as would be the heavy 12ga. It is a later French gray gun with softer oil finish. I like the gun well enough to order a 16ga with basic 2x wood SFE and straight grip, hoping for result closer to 6#. Thinking about IC/IM with a view to using spreaders for early grouse. I have had no problems, but I understand that CSMC service is second to none.

Researcher --I agree with you 100% regarding your comments about the RBL, Tony's accomplishments, a SxS made in the U.S.A., and the technology. I also had an Arizaga and it was a nightmare. I almost gave up on Spanish guns after that fiasco.

I would save a little more money and buy a used English boxlock. I shoot a H. Clarke & Sons and with 28" barrels it weighs 5lbs. 15 oz. and is a very dynamic handling gun.

The RBL certainly is appealing (made in the USA, etc.) but only if you can effectively shoot with the factory prescribed stock dimensions. Cast/drop modifications seem limited as the draw bolt would presumably preclude stock bending.

Is the 16 really a b$st#rd guage? I wonder how many of the them Tony will move?

Old Forester, is the weight of your 20 gauge 4/53 close to average? That is a full pound heavier than my 28 gauge. One thing I like about the AyA is a trim wrist. I prefer nothing over 14 1/4" and I like 14" even better. I don't expect one that small from a sixteen gauge but if they can do it on the 28 gauge I think they can come close on the 16. The RBL has always looked thick through the wrist from pictures. I'm sure it is more oval than the diamond shape of the AyA and maybe they are trimmer than they look. To me the best thing they could do for the RBL is lose the gold triggers. It is something I just don't care for on a gun. Perhaps I am alone in feeling that way and while it alone wouldn't stop me from buying a gun it is a factor.

jcj, I think you have pointed out an alternative that is the best deal going. Last year while shopping for an American 16 I ended up with a Cogswell & Harrison. I wasn't finding American guns for $2K or under that I thought were comparable. I would take it any day over another AyA and it was almost $1K less than the starting price for the new RBL 16. Granted, the RBL will have nicer wood but I believe second hand English guns are a better value today than either the RBL or anything coming out of Spain.

Skip

Beats me, I only have one and it is the only one I've ever weighed.

I don't think that service should be that big of an issue. There are plenty of people here that specialize in Spanish boxelocks. I would definatly purchase a 16 ga if I wanted one. If I had the change I would get on of the 16 ga. Foxes from Tony.

I would get the one that fit and felt better. My third consideration would be looks. I like the looks of the RBL a little better than the typical Spanish boxelock but only the purchaser can decide that. In the Sidelocks, nothing compares to the Spanish for value.

Althoug the RBL is an unknown entity, both of the guns should last a lifetime.

I had not heard the one about Spanish steel in a long time!