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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
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I come from a different perspective regarding chokes. I grew up in an avid wing shooting mileu in the 1950's, when you could buy a new Model 12 at the Hardware Store and no "Stevie Nix" paperwork, and we could shoot rats with our .22's at the town dump Saturday afternoons, and barn pigeons with our 20 gauge pumps whenever we liked. All my Dad's and GrandDad's friends and shooting partners either shot Model 12's or side-by-doubles, 12 gauges mainly, and at least Mod. if not Full choked. Poly-Choke and those loud Cutts Comps. were called G*& D#$@ Pickles- and my mentors taught me- shoot the choke in your gun, Winchester-Parker-Fox-Ithaca know more about chokes that we do.

I have 6 older Model 12's (pre-WW11 or at least pre-Korean War mfg.) none with barrels any shorter than 28" and chokes any more open than Mod. Many old timers when you could buy a new field grade Model 12 in 1932 for $31.95 or so- bought a 30" Full over a 28" Mod. or Full- Depression times made them feel they got more "metal for their money" with a 30" barrel- 4 of the M12's are 12 ga. (two are 3" Heavy Duck versions)and my Dad's 1937 12 30" Full is my money gun- the one I always take when I want high scores- I also have a 20 ga. mfg. 1940 Mod. and a 28 ga mfg. 1939 with a solid rib WS-2 choke (aprox. mod.)

I do NOT hunt grouse or woodcock or quail or doves, and use a ranging Lab for pheasants and waterfowling, and my favorite of all wing shooting is pass shooting, and I love high incomers. So for me to have, let's say, Brileys, rechoke any of these "Perfect Repeaters" would be futile.

I did buy a pre-1913 mfg. LC Smith 12 Grade 2- 30" Crown steel barrels choked Full and Full, and I was "shredding" pheasants with it last Fall, so I sent it out to Buck Hamlin in MO. and had him open the choke in the right hand barrel (front trigger) and have both patterened tested it and killed many pigeons after I got it back. I would recommend him to anyone, but as others have said, you can't put the removed metal back.

I also like to see the birds crumple in flight- especially barn pigeons and crows (aka- Black Ducks). But for waterfowling with mandatory steel shot loads, I have leaned to a Mossberg 835 Utility Mag 12- with the ported barrel and choke tubes-and a more open tube works best for jump shooting mallards and birds copming into the stool- for Pass shooting I use a Briley extended tube and 3" loads-

I hunted for many years with a pal who inherited a fine older Parker 16- a gauge I "pass up". He was the best shot on grouse I ever have seen in 50 years (I used the 20 Model 12 when I hunted with Noel) and he had a Setter many guys would rob a bank to buy-a natural- but neither Noel or his wife liked game birds, so he'd give them to the farmers and to his partner after the day's hunt- wow- riddled with shot- I finally convinced him to pattern that Old Reliable at the club (we have a patterning board) and it was throwing 80% patterns from either barrel at 30-35 yards- 30" circle std.

I am sure I lowered the "resale value" of that nice older Elsie by having Buck open the right barrel, although you cannot see a single tool mark in the muzzle- that is craftsmanship and fine work, in my book. But as I don't plan to sell it, I made my decision and didn't regret it one bit. Just curios though- my Smith with 30" barrels weighs 6 lbs. 12 oz. unloaded- I'd bet your 12 gauge M21 skeet with 26" barrels weighs a full pound more?? RWTF


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,350
Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,350
Don't cry about opening Elsie's choke. For gunning mostly over decoys my 12ga 1938 Elsie Specialty M/F was either missing spectacularly or pulping. That was five or six years ago when members here fired up my love of doubles and advised me on the Specialty---the first I'd seen. Opening the chokes turned it from a maybe-gun to one I use and enjoy.

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 202
Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 202
Bob, open them to Cyl/IC or Cyl/Skeet 2. As you said, modern loads, especially high quality reloads, pattern tightly. IC would be good to 30-35 yds with 1 oz of shot; a long shot for grouse or woodcock in my experience. Cylinder is perfect for most first shots on grouse.
Joe

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 65
Sidelock
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Sidelock

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 65
I think you would get very good use from a gun with one barrel bored sort of open and the othe barrel bored sort of not open.


Quid me anxias sum
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 14
Geo Offline
Boxlock
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Boxlock

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 14
Just opened up a Grulla that was Full & "Fuller", to .005"
and .015 ... about Skeet & Light Modified.

For me, with approropriate shot sizes and good quality factory loads or reloads, a very useful combination for grouse, woodcock,
and pheasant ... or the odd round of Sporting, 5-Stand or Skeet.

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