doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com G&H number 114

I just picked up this rifle; Magnum square bridge action. Cal .404. 28 inch 1/3 oct ribbed Barrel, Lyman 48, 3 folding leaf express sights. Michael, do you have it in your data bank?
All the best, Mal

Mal, I know the rifle well, there has always been a small mystery as to the barrel number on this one. Everything looks good to me and I think it's a fine rifle and have no idea why a 100 number from 1923 is on a circa 1925-26 rifle that normally would have had a two-digit number. Of all the numbers verses calibers in my database there are two rifles that don't fit, yours and one other. If you ever pull the metal out of the stock I would be very interested in anything that might be marked on the underside.

My pet theory on your rifle is the engraver was supposed to engrave "14" not "114". I can't prove or disprove that like I said just a theory, tomorrow I might have a new one. Too throw a wrench into the works the other number out of place is also a 404.

This is the latest data I have regarding G&H.

Griffin & Howe:

Before Seymour Griffin teamed up with James V. Howe he, in the later years, started marking his rifles “S. R. Griffin New York" in a banner on the forward part of the floorplate. In the very beginning of G&H this same practice continued with two banners on the forward part of the floorplate "Griffin & Howe, Inc. New York". These floorplates were completely engraved and some of them have the original owner’s names engraved on them as well. An early G&H flier shows many of these engraved floorplates in stock and the forward banners can be seen in the photos. When the barrel numbering started some of these engraved floorplates were used on the rifle as well and will be found on guns for several years after the start-up of G&H. I have reports on three and have pictures of one rifle that has no engraving on the floorplate or trigger guard save “Griffin & Howe, Inc. New York” engraved in a circle around the floorplate release hole.

There was a lot of experimenting in the early days on how the rifles were to be marked. It’s appears that the original numbering plan was to number all the rifles with the same number but different calibers. A number “1” in caliber .30-06, .25-Whelen, .250-300, 7x57, 35-Whelen, .400-Whelen then start over with number “2” and have one of each caliber with that number. I have observed several identical single digit numbers which adds confusion to the rifle owner who might think he has the 3rd rifle made by G&H because the number on his rifle is 3.



Examples from my database:

Barrel No. Caliber
3 250-300
3 35 Whelen
4 25 Whelen
4 35 Whelen
6 250-300
6 30-06
7 30-06
8 35 Whelen
10 35 Whelen
10 7x57

For some reason G&H started using the two digit numbers again in 1925 on new calibers they introduced that year and on others using the commercial Mauser action.

Barrel No. Action Caliber Barrel No. Action Caliber
13 Mauser 375 H&H 23 Mauser 275 H&H
15 Mauser 375 H&H 24 Mauser 350 G&H
17 Mauser 375 H&H 25 Mauser 35 Whelen
18 Mauser 350 G&H 27 Mauser 400 Mag
19 Mauser 375 H&H 27 Mauser 416 Rigby
20 Mauser 416 Rigby 31 Mauser 350 G&H
20 Mauser 375 H&H 32 Mauser 30-06
21 Mauser 375 H&H 32 Mauser 350 G&H
21 Mauser 300 H&H 33 Mauser 350 G&H
21 Mauser 35-Wheln 34 Mauser 350 G&H
23 Mauser 350 G&H 36 Mauser 350 G&H


Griffin & Howe next assigned blocks of numbers to particular calibers starting sometime in late 1923.

Barrel Number Caliber Highest No. Recorded
101-150 .30-06 147
151-200 .35 Whelen 166
201-250 .400 Whelen 228
251-300 7X57 300
301-350 .250-3000 314
351-400 25 Whelen* 351
401-500 .30-06 494

* The .25 Whelen was a version of the modern .25-06 or .25 Niedner.

As you can see the popular calibers such as the .30-06 used up the blocks of numbers whereas calibers like the .25 Whelen show only one number, the first, out of a block of fifty numbers. This practice was abandoned at number 501 with the numbers from then on in sequence regardless of caliber.

Year Barrel Number Year Barrel Number
1950 2008-2034
1951 2035-2066
1952 2067-2096
1926 501-610 1953 2026-2204
1927 611-721 1954 2127-2156
1928 722-832 1955 2157-2203
1929 833-942 1956 2204-2216
1930 943-1053 1957 2217-2246
1931 1054-1152 1958 2247-2276
1932 1153-1168 1959 2277-2319
1933 1169-1304 1960 2320-2336
1934 1305-1383 1961 2337-2426
1935 1384-1462 1962 2427-2456
1936 1463-1536 1963 2457-2504
1937 1537-1599 1964 2505-2519
1938 1600-1623 1965 2520-2534
1939 1624-1680 1966 2535-2542
1940 1681-1678 1967 2543-2550
1941 1679-1718 1968 2551-2557
1942 1719-1737 1969 2558-2564
1943 None* 1970 2565-2571
1944 None * 1971 2572-2578
1945 1738-1767 1972 2579-2584
1946 1768-1797 * War Work
1947 1798-1877
1948 1878-1964
1949 1965-2025

Michael, There are no markings on the barrel except a witness line. The action has only regular Mauser production marks, and serial #57271. "71" is on all small parts except the extractor, and 7271 is on the bolt root. The number "4366" is on the left side of the reciever ring below the stock line in the place where Rigby usually numbered their actions. "safe" is inlayed in gold on the safety lever in Rigby fashion. There is no evidence of any government proofs, either German or British. The reciever ring measures 1.412 so no evidence that anything could have been removed. Did G&H access their actions from Rigby? It would be interesting to see what the Rigby records have for #4366.

This is a great handling rifle in my favorite bolt action caliber. The stock style is of the earlier G&H type with shadow line "Whelen" cheekpiece which I also prefer. I am a happy camper!

How many other .404's do you list? What is the number of the other "problem"?

Thanks for the info.

All the best, Mal

Mal,

I have listed some .423 bullets in the "for sale" section if you require any.

Ken

Are we talking about the .404 that Pete Harvey had for sale?

Ken, Thanks, I'll take a look.

Flygas, Roger.

How many other .404's do you list? What is the number of the other "problem"?

Out of over 700 G&H rifles in the database I have four (4) 404's.
The other number is No. 230 which falls in the .400 Whelen calibers but I've not found a another 230 in 400 Whelen.