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Hi All,
Today a friend brought by a SAC A-1 12ga shotgun with some problems. It is a straight stock that was broken at the wrist and a fair to poor repair. It is missing the opening lever screw a non matching one is inserted. The ejectors are not functioning. The balance of the gun seems in good condition the 28" krupp barrels are clean.The triggers feel ok. The engraving of 2 quail on 1 side and 2 woodcock on the other side and trigger guard. He wants to sell or trade with me what do you think it is worth in this condition its engraving is about equiv. with a grade 4 lewis but without dogs.
Thanks, Jeff G.
I took some photos but they came out poorly, I will try again.

Jeff
When new, this grade SAC gun carried a catalog price of $125. According to period catalogs, the A-1 was first cataloged in 1902, and is a relatively rare grade given its high retail and the fact that the company ceased operations in early 1905. The last example on which I had sales information was from an auction in April of this year where an A-1 brought $1800 plus the buyers premium. Given the fact that this example had cut barrels and stock (it was very nice otherwise), I thought that was way above actual value; but the buyer (whom I did not know beforehand) called me later to tell me he had read my articles on Syracuse and had determined that he was going to have that gun! I have no idea what the gun you have may be worth; but from your description it sounds like it will require a lot of work to restore correctly. That said, I would certainly like to see some pics of your gun; as SAC guns with original straight grips are apparently seldom seen (I've recorded one to date). Thanks, Tom

Hi Tom
Thanks for the info $1800 seems crazy for a gun with cut barrels but if you want it that bad. Below I am putting some photos.






Thanks for your input
Jeff G.

Hey Jeff I have a Syracuse that is just plain and it shoots nice. If you don't want the gun I wood like to buy it. I think the stock can be fixed but don't shoot the gun before. My Email is lcsmithman@hotmail.com let me know thanks Donnie Reels

Jeff:
Thanks for sharing the above photos; and I agree that this gun does indeed have a funky screw in the top lever. Other things that are not original: obviously the white line pad; this aftermarket alteration would have been done 40 years or more after the gun works closed. The standard butt treatment for this model would have been a simple hard-rubber plate; plain at the toe and heal, with intersecting diagonal lines in the center. Period catalogs listed only one pad as optional, a Silvers pad for an additional $5.00. The fore end wood has also received an aftermarket repair, as the small diamond shaped escutcheon near the tip is not original. Based on my experience with Syracuse ejector guns, to inlet their ejector mechanism required so much wood removal that it left the front and rear anchor points very weak. In this instance I suspect the wood securing the front anchor screw cracked, and the original wood thread screw was replaced by a machine thread screw secured to the diamond shaped escutcheon visible in the checkering pattern. Maybe the same guy that performed this repair also performed the less than desireable stock repair? As FYI, what is the serial number of this gun, and can you post a picture of the bottom of the frame? Thanks, Tom

Nice piece Jeff!
Those pics are a nice study in evenness of patina. The readers of the restoration thread should look at these and see the evenness of wear. The way each part of the shotgun blends agewise with the piece next to it. Even the shrinkage at the stock head looks just right for 100+ years.
I'm curious about where it balances.
If a straight stock is so rare, and this one has a whiteline pad, if it was converted the balance would be way forward. I can't see if the engraving on the trigger guard, or it's inletting, was done by the same person as the action or forend.
I think it's beautiful.

I will post a picture of the bottom, the one I took looked terrible, I will also post a pic of trigger guard and serial number. The white line pad is actually a newish ruger pad that does not fit at all. It weighs a hefty 7lbs 14oz and feels muzzle heavy I will check balance point. Tom thanks for the info especially the forend fix it is nicely done. Is the lever on the forend to activate the ejectors? They do not work in any position I also think the top lever spring is a weak replacement it does not have much tension.
Tom what fair value would you put on this gun given its problems (not looking for the one person that would over pay).
Jeff G.

Jeff
I don't think I recall that you posted barrel length; but from the shape of the breechballs, I would assume that they are at least 30". If you look at the bottom of the barrels just ahead of the flats; you should see the Krupp trademark and two stamps, one of which will be a number stamp which I think is an indicator of barrel weight (just my theory, the other is the barrel borer's mark I believe; again, my theory, and most often will be a "J"). Generally heavier 12-bore guns will have a "2" stamp; the heaviest 12-bores will have a "3" stamp (and are usually 32" tubes), and the lightest 12-bores will have a "1" stamp (and graded guns often feature a "flattened" breech ball treatement that lightens the gun a bit more; I have never seen this feature on a SAC gun with 2 or 3 marked barrels). If the ejectors are not working at all, I would suspect some parts may be missing; possibly the coil springs, but I have seen some examples with the entire mechanism removed from the iron. The lever you noted is the ejector on/off switch; assuming it was in proper working order, lever forward disables the kickers and converts the gun to the extractor mode; lever rearwards engages the kickers and converts the gun to the selective auto ejector mode (the words "ON" and "OFF" should be engraved on the escutcheon to indicate selection to the shooter). As to the top lever spring, it is likely just weakened with age and needs to be replaced. The top lever spring on a SAC gun is a "V" spring type, is a little small (in my opinion) for the purpose; and it is not uncommon to see surviving examples with broken and very weak top lever springs. My purpose for requesting the serial number and frame bottom photo is to determine wheather or not the barrel lug has the sliding cocking plate; this feature would date the gun to mid-1903 or later. This feature is typically found on guns above serial number 33xxx; but SAC guns weren't always built in number sequence, so I have found many instances of feature overlap. As to a value, why not PM me with a telephone number; I will call at your convenience and we can discuss. Tom

Hi Tom,
I just emailed you my number. I think the serial number is 31xxx I will get the actual number for you (I am at work now). The barrels are 28" were they cut? I don't know and have not checked the chokes yet. I did not see an off or on written near the ejector selector but will check. One other noticable thing to me is when I afix the barrels they click past what appears to be a cocking dog or ejector activator but I just noticed it and did not try to figure it out yet.
Jeff G.

Jeff, neat gun, I love the quail engraving. I may have some extra parts if you need them.
Ross