doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com restoration opinion sought

So , what is your opinion on different levels of restorations ?
Should old patina be removed and the parts brought back to proper .
Or should the patinas be left ?
I find it rather odd to see barrels re finished but the rest of the piece left as is.

Im not talking replacing case hardening with torching. Here .
Im wondering about removing years of built up patinas as part of the over all job

do you Prefer that the patina be left or do you lend to , everything being refinished ?

as i said. to me it seems odd to refinish the barrels and stock . but not do any of the other hardware ?

yet i find myself being ask about doing just that .

am i off in my Opinion .

im thinking the customer is considering being able to replace everything in the old stock as a base for value .
which in this case is not all that great anyway . maybe 500.00 tops ????????

I have had several classic American SxS's completely restored to as-new condition by a well-qualified professional gunsmith. Stock refinish, checkering redone, case coloring, barrel blueing or browning, and I usually have a period recoil pad added to lengthen the LOP. In one instance, a new stock was necessary.

I have been very pleased with each, and use them regularly to hunt and shoot clays.

A quality full restoration costs anywhere from $1K to $2k.

JERRY

Once you know it is being done for enjoyment, not investment, it doesn't really matter anymore.
It isn't the Holy Grail. It's a shotgun that isn't new anymore. If it is not a high value, rare, unique, investment quality gun, then Who cares? Enjoy it, play with it, shoot it, but understand no one cares but you.
Here's an Ithaca I stuck $1200 into because I wanted to. No other sensible reason. Still need the barrels done right.
Before

after

Everyone has a different opinion on this subject....I like nicely restored guns as long as they are professional and completed as original......, no barrel changing work, choke changing, forcing cone changes, rubber pads added, beaver tail forends added or extra holes......some people like all these changes.......to me, those guns are butchered forever......change the ammunition, not the gun.....if you need all that barrel work, buy another gun......

Patina is rust, I don't like rust...a little care prevents rust......blueing is rust also, but applied by choice.....

The gun pictured was made in 1914 and was cared for properly....I re-blued the barrels, trigger guard etc. and refinished the wood because that is the way I like my guns...., but I also do all my own work.....so very little cost......

This choice depends on your personal opinion---Do What You Want That Suits You, even barrel work if that is what you want, it is your gun---...others will disagree here for sure...., but then again I would not drive around in a '37 Ford Convertible covered with patina or shoot rusty guns either......JMO.....to each his own.....it's a matter of individual personal taste.......

i , i know how much a restoration costs.
after all , im the one charging for it .

i just found it odd that when i mentioned to the customer about cleaning up the locks and other hardware , this customer was somewhat taken back .
yet he felt nothing about wanting the barrels refinished . bores polished. new stock made from Black limba . on top of that adding a cheek piece ?

i thought maybe i was out there and had lost touch or something . thats why i ask

Some people are into complete, total restorations, with every detail as close to factory as possible. Some just want the major items restored to have a flashy looking gun. If it were mine I would like a total job in most cases. Others might just shoot them as they are. As long as you are not putting screw in choke tube or a adjustable comb on the stock I do not care. It is your gun and your money.

Your observation is interesting, captchee. I think the peculiarity comes from customers who've spent long years with low and hard-earned incomes, Depression children cautious of ripoffs, a cultural thing.

It shows up among million-dollar hockey players, arguably the stingiest clan of athletes, who were paid nothing or peanuts before they got into the big leagues. They've been known to rent out their reading material to teammates on long flights.

I think customers raising eyebrows about cleaning up locks and hardware is also a cultural thing---as is not hunting and laying up guns because of the price of non-tox shot and shells. Peculiar but understandable to me.

It transcends guns. It's everywhere.
When I built spec houses, it was very clear that if you could not see it, the customer didn't want to pay for it.
You make waaaay more money on a house with 2X4 walls, minimum insulation, 7/16 osb sheathing, 15lb felt on the roof, vinyl soffit, melamine cabinets, 18ga sink, knock-down on the walls, cheap furnace and hot water heater, garbage disposal, 3/8 in flooring, bottom tier windows and doors. 3.5" flat work, low end garage door, cheap opener, etc. etc.
People want cheap and good looking.

When I see entire unfinished subs being demo'ed in California,I know why.

In shotguns, I don't polish the innards of box locks but one time. Then I know when I put it back together, it's gum free, and looks nice. I hate powder residue inside a shotgun. I think for every guy like me that might want that polished inside, there's a million that don't care, but will anguish over a scratch in the barrel bluing.

Most certainly you would be correct . The simple fact of the mater , the vast majority of folks I do work for do not have a lot of money and have worked very hard for what they have . That includes me .
Im just thankful that I can stay busy enough making custom traditional muzzle loading rifles shotguns and such that I can turn away work that I eather don’t want to do or that I think is past my skill .

I also am of the opinion that a restored piece is just that , restored .
I would most certainly agree that the monetary value of any restored piece is based on the quality of the restoration.
PA24 when I say patina, in not meaning rust , in the context of rust like on
ClapperZapper’s Ithica

This whole situation kinda strikes me as something like if Clapper Zapper brough that ithica to me and said ; Charlie I would like you to bring this back . . I want you to make me a new stock out of ,,,, X ,,,,,,, wood .. I want it to have a wide deep undercut check piece ,,,, I know the original doesn’t have it but that’s what I want .
I would also like the barrels freshened , polished and refinished ..
I also want the engraving cleaned up .
BUT Don’t do anything with the rust on the receiver nor anything with the locks plates , buttplate or trigger guard .. But I would like to have the workings of the locks and receiver all cleaned up and polished . Basically I would like to be able to put everything back to the old stock . Past having the barrels re done and the engraving freshened , it would look just like when I brought it to you .

As to the piece im speaking of . it’s a late Percussion Muzzleloader . WM . MOORE

Now would that not cause you to be taken back ????
I guess it all comes down to what the customer wants and if im willing to do what he wants .

thank you all for your posts . i guess maybe im make more of it then it is . But the request just struck me as odd

You are right, it is odd.......but strictly a matter of personal taste.....so you must either give the customer what he wants or turn down the job.......probably in his mind he is "keeping it original" by not refinishing the other parts.....so be it....

The 'patina' that cannot be removed with lacquer thinner or other petroleum based cleaners, i.e. after the grime and dirt and oil is gone, is generally surface rust, no matter how smooth it has become from handling, it is rust (an oxide)....on the other hand, the discoloration from faded case colors is not rust....