doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Selling gun and shipping to FFL

A further note: In spite of what SDH-MT says, the dealer certainly can ship it back to the individual from whom it was received. The BATF regs specifically allow for this so that transactions between individuals and gunsmiths can be carried out.

Jim I wasn't endorsing the practice. I was merely relating my recent experiences. The way I look at it different businesses operate different ways which have nothing to do with the law. The one that bothers me the most is the rampant refusal by so many dealers to sale to California. There is certainly no law stating they can't but they decide thats the way they want to do business. In all cases where a copy of my DL was required it was stated up front and generally noted on their FFL. I consider them to be more liberal than those dealers who refuse transfers all together unless it is an FFL to FFL transfer which is also not a law.

Great feedback and discussion. Lots of varying positions on this subject. I ended up sending a copy of my DL by email. Only after I was able to establish the FFL dealer was reputable. I spoke with the buyer to assure my email was not just discarded in the trash, but asked for it to be shredded. I hope those that insist on a DL before receiving a gun transfer take the approach to protect there customers ID and confidentiality, by properly shredding the copy that is sent. I know that I do not keep a copy of the FFL sent to me, and in fact shred the copy I receive once confirmation has been received that the gun has arrived. SKB I respect your position as it is your business. That said some of us are concerned with someone keeping my personal data, or improperly disposing of it. SKB you are well known and respected and I am sure take great pains to protect your business as well as your customers. Unfortunately this may not be the case with all FFL holders we might deal with. I am cautious with the personal data I give out, which I believe in this day and age is understandable.
Regards,
Phil

As cautious as we all are with our personal data, I'm sure that a private small businessman and FFL is just as careful in dotting the I's and crossing the T's when it comes to transfers. Especially when it comes to an agency with as unpredictable and capricious behavior as the BATF.

I don't begrudge them whatever additional restrictions they wish to place on these deals......it's their business and I don' tell them how to run it. My only influence is as a customer who spends money. If the process becomes too onerous for me, I'll find another FFL.

I think Phillip and the FFL came to a reasonable understanding. I hope I'm always able to do that as well.

Jim Leggg has it correct. I have sold/traded many firearms with most of the reputable large dealers and NONE of them have required a copy of my Driver's License. Most of the smaller dealer's are so terrified of the ATF, that they will do anything that an Agent suggests to them during an inspection.
My regular FFL gave up his lecense due to presuure from the city he lived in. He reccamanded another FFL in the area. When I contacted this FFL. he had so many restrictions/prohibitions and requirements, that I asked him to email me what he wanted. Never heard from him and never used him, found an FFL locally that knew the Regulations.
You do not need to ship a long gun from an FFL holder to an FFL holder. You will just increase your cost and then who has the liabilty for improper packing and damage during shipment? You or the FFL who is the actual shipper of record.
If you find an FFL holder that does not know the Regulations or inserts requirements not in the REgulations, find another FFL holder.-Dick

For a long time here, I dealt with a local gunsmith/barrel maker and friend, who would simply let me ship and receive guns through his facility, at no charge at all, beyond what FedEx charged him. Wonderful convenience for me. But nearly everything he "knows" was wrong. Generally backwards. He believed NO FFL was needed to send a gun to a private party out-of-state, but WAS needed to ship one within the state(Utah). It got to the point that my lip was bleeding after every visit, from trying NOT to argue with the nice people who were doing such favors for me. I finally switched to a UPS store, in a Super Market, less than a mile from my house. They take firearms, muzzle loaders, anything I bring in and don't even ask what's in the box. Even when I ask for insurance, they don't ask what it is. This is probably not quite right, either, but I'll take it, for now.
My favorite topic!
Thanks to all,

Tom, I can't seem to find the section in the BATF regulations that states that a dealer may ship a gun back to a non-licensee if the transfer did not involve receiving the gun for a repair. Could you please point me in the direction of the correct paragraph? Thanks, Rick

You are correct, its probably not right, if your UPS store is a third party retailer (most are).
http://www.ups.com/media/en/terms_service_us.pdf

3.6 Firearms and Ammunition
UPS accepts packages containing
firearms, (as defined by Title 18, Chapter
44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United
States Code), from and between licensed
importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed
dealers and licensed collectors, as defined
in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States
Code, law enforcement agencies, from and
between persons not otherwise prohibited
from shipping firearms by federal, state or
local law, and when such shipment
complies with all federal, state and local
laws applicable to the shipper, recipient,
and package.
- The shipper must use Delivery
Confirmation Adult Signature Required
service for each package containing a
firearm (including handguns). UPS, in its
sole discretion, may require the shipper to
select a UPS Next Day Air® Service for any
package containing a firearm. Handguns
(as defined by 18 U.S.C. §921) will be
accepted for transportation only via UPS
Next Day Air Services.
- Firearms (including handguns) are not
accepted for transportation via UPS Drop
Boxes, UPS Internet Shipping, in response
to a request for UPS On-Call Pickup®
service, or when presented for shipment at
any Third Party Retailer. UPS Returns®
Services are not available for packages
containing firearms.
- Small arms ammunition, as defined in
49 C.F.R. § 173.59, will be transported only
when packaged and labeled in compliance
with 49 C.F.R. § 172.
- Firearm parts, which do not constitute
firearms as defined under federal law,
(including without limitation Title 18,
Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the
United States Code), and which otherwise
comply with federal, state, and local law,
will be accepted for transportation.
- Firearms (including handguns) and
firearm parts are not accepted for shipment
internationally.
For more information, access
www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship
/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html or
contact UPS.

As dealers we must ship it back to an ffl dealer even if it was sent to us via an individual for a sale or trade to us. Only repairs can be send back to the individual. So if you send a gun to sell to me or any other dealer and the sale or trade does not work out, it has to go back to an ffl dealer of your choice.

Best


John Boyd

Page 8

http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/lps41631/2005/p53004.pdf

"§ 922 Unlawful acts.
(a) It shall be unlawful—
(1) for any person—
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, or licensed
dealer, to engage in the business of
importing, manufacturing, or dealing
in firearms, or in the course of such
business to ship, transport, or receive
any firearm in interstate or foreign
commerce; or
(B) except a licensed importer or
licensed manufacturer, to engage in
the business of importing or manufacturing
ammunition, or in the
course of such business, to ship,
transport, or receive any ammunition
in interstate or foreign commerce;
(2) for any importer, manufacturer,
dealer, or collector licensed under the
provisions of this chapter to ship or
transport in interstate or foreign commerce
any firearm to any person other
than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed
collector, except that—
(A) this paragraph and subsection
(b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a
licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
licensed dealer, or licensed collector
from returning a firearm or
replacement firearm of the same kind
and type to a person from whom it
was received; and this paragraph
shall not be held to preclude an individual
from mailing a firearm owned
in compliance with Federal, State,
and local law to a licensed importer