doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Manufrance Ideal - help with grade etc.

Gene,
Remember when I told you, a long time ago, that you would likely have trouble attaching exact dates of production to French sporting firearms?

Exhibit A, right here.

I still think it will be near impossible, not in all cases, but, many.

Best,
Ted

Ted. .Back to the beginning; .
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=485161&page=1

I'm wondering if you ever spent time wandering for 40 years in some desert or perhaps meditating on some mountain top? Or is it the Cognac and fine wine?

Gene, I don’t know what I was doing in Feb of last year but I seem to have missed a large portion of that thread.

The ledger pages that Fab sent me regarding my Ideal 6RE-E are the same type shown in the thread from last year. All very interesting.

Gene, I don’t know that I have ever had cognac, and fine wine would be wasted on me (ask Lloyd).

But! I do know that for all the documentation in triplicate paperwork that is done in France, little of it is available to read, today.

I tried, when I was there.

I’m pointing out that as it sometimes happens there are three guns, two serial numbers apart, separated by most of a decade. Built when? Sold when? As noted by James, through Fab.

Tough sledding for nailing down build dates.

Best,
Ted

This info was sent to me many years ago from France by a Monsieur who told me he had gotten it from an uncle that used to work
at Manufrance. The second page lists years of manufacture, serial numbers and quantities made.

JayCee,

Nice to see you posting. We haven't talked for a while.

I have the bottom list.....the years of production. And that is what I had based my 1920/1921 estimated date on. It's also been the basis of my estimated for Ideal production totals.

Going from the ledger pages that detail models, it would appear mine is a pre war gun.

I don't recall ever seeing that first page. However, maybe i got it from you?? I do have a page that appears to have the same info on it, just translated into English.

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com...ANCE_IDEAL_12_GAUGE_SIDE_BY_SIDE_SHOTGUN

jaycee's lists would certainly rearrange the dob's of my three ideals; moving #26,331 (7REP) from 1908 back to 1901 (which might explain the proof with powder S); moving #60,782 (5S) from 1928 back to 1927; and moving my little 16 gauge model 320 forward from 1933 to 1934.

and on the first page, it's clear how fab was able to quickly label #26,331, the pigeon guns were all grouped together, separated merely by french or english style.

and another bit of eye candy - file:///C:/Users/tom/Downloads/IDEAL%20PERFECTION%20RIFLE%20ENGLISH%20TYPE%20MODEL%206RE%20PLATINES%20FAUX%20BODY%20....mhtml

Ted, actually we've done a pretty good job over 8 years in establishing some parameters. And the Manufrance records exist. You just have to ask FAB500 or travel to Saint-Etienne to read them. Maybe someday they'll be made available on-line for a small fee. Not all of them but certainly enough.

Manufrance is certainly well documented.

But, there are many makers, that came and went, that so little is known about.

Best,
Ted

Salut,

1901 pour un Perfection, cela ne va pas être possible. Le premier modèle apparait en 1904. Numéro de modèle : 7REE. Il est muni d'un pontet lunettes.
A partir de 1906 sur ce modèle, le pontet sera remplacé par un pontet standard.
La Manu a utilisé la poudre S pour éprouver leur armes jusqu'en 1913.
Les canons demi-bloc datent de 1897.
L'acier Hercule date de 1898.
Il y a quelques années, je suis allé aux Archives de la Loire pour consulter les registres de la Manu. A l'occasion de cette visite, j'ai pris quelques photos des registres pour les modèles 6REE, 9EE et 344, tous en calibre 12. Pour le perfection calibre 12 et 16.C'est tout ce que j'ai.