doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com CHOKE ?

Seems in the dim recesses of my memory; a story about Lord Ripon; reputed to be the greatest shot gunner of the Victorian era: When asked what choke he used in his gun; he replied "Why Full and Full Sir." (Hruumph, pip, pip! dear Fellow.)
When he died, a purchaser of said gun measured the chokes and found they were Cyl-Cyl.
That story has been buried in my skull for a few years, and I can stand to be corrected if it is wrong.

I have shot side by sides with Briley choke tubes, and end up putting in Cylinder/I.C........not that I am a hot shot.

Sam Ogle, Lincoln, NE

What does ''pip,pip!'' mean?

Ah yes, Larry. But, even Brister didn't say "cylinder is a forgiving friend", did he? How about this one, "Choke is demanding of skill, but satisfying in proper use", quote Stan Hillis.

Larry, there are more reasons to need/use choke in a gun than not having the hunting skills to get close enough to kill everything with a cylinder. Do you espouse using cylinder for turkeys? How about on a dove field in late season, like I was today on the last day of dove season here, when doves will almost NEVER come within "cylinder range", or pass shooting ducks, doves or geese. This afternoon I took 14 doves on a 15 bird limit with a 20 gauge and 7/8 oz. shot. Tough, rangy birds that were flying fast and high, for the most part. IC and LM did the trick. Sometimes in late season I use my 32" Elsie 16 ga. that is choked XF and XF. How could having better field skills get me in closer to those doves? If you think that is possible you are dreaming. I use decoys, but all game birds are not sneaked up on like your beloved Chinese pheasants.

I am classed Master by the NSCA at the current time. I may well get bumped down to AA at this review for shooting too few registered targets last year, but my point is that I worked my way to Master class by winning my class in major tournaments and I did it shooting .020" and .020" in a fixed choke MX-8. I put my money where my mouth is, so to speak, no?

Go to a major sporting tournament or FITASC event and shoot cylinder all the way through and then tell me you felt you missed NO targets because of lack of pattern density. Look back at the original post. I never qualified my statement as being hunting only, like you did.

Different chokes, for different folks.

SRH

I don't know what pip pip means, Joe. I've noticed a peculiar mannerism of sucking noises like chirping squirrels and harumphs in British officers' messes and wardrooms and among men of some privilege over there, sort of like the way we Canadians tend to put eh at end of sentences which drives me crazy, too. Invited to lunch in Hazelmere south of London a couple years ago, the epicentre of Maggie's support, the toffs were all dressed the same in tweed, blazers and regimental ties, all real good guys with fine records in military and public service, no fakirs among them. But gorblimey, the affectation, wiggling and pursing of lips was hard for this colonial boy to hoist aboard!

"At least when it comes to upland hunting, more people are undoubtedly over underchoked rather than under overchoked. Too often we think of more open choke as being a crutch for poor shooting viable substitute for good shooting."

I don't own a shotgun with a cylinder choke. In my 40+ seasons of upland hunting and shooting pen-raised birds I can recall 2 instances of inedible birds. In the last 2 days I've killed 6 pheasants with 20ga choked light full; no more than a thigh was wasted.

My experience does not lend credence to the argument that the flip side to "spray & pray" with an open choke is mangled birds.

Daryl, I don't "know" exactly, but I find the 10 bore choke diameters, well, say, less than convincing!!

Mike, a lone whistler wheeled last week from behind the tiny island where I had my decoys and presented a dandy shot flying from my right to left, afterburners on. Jake my Lab retrieved and spat the bird out on the shore, wouldn't bring it in. The breast and bone were crushed from a modified barrel. Flat, no exaggeration. One size or one choke or 40 years of upland does not fit all gunning experiences. My original comment on choke was that I'd spent too long, to the point of obsession in the arcane world of choke, and that generally none would be fine with me for my kind of shooting even though I have only two guns bored cylinder first-barrel. I've been an upland gunner and shot pen-raised pheasants---once---during my 70-plus years with a shotgun. Upland and waterfowl here are different worlds.

I appreciate that upland and waterfowl are different worlds. Also sounds as though my waterfowl experience is about as extensive as your upland experience. When the topic of chokes comes up, I offer my experiences and, sometimes, my rationale for the chokes I use. I concluded long ago that when I cripple game, as all hunters will, I need to believe that I at least used enough gun. It's little consolation to the game, but I prefer a mangled, but very dead, bird to the disconcerting thought that I may have used too little shot and/or too little choke.

Ultimately, it's none of my business what others do, but I am curious...with 70 years experience and having mangled a duck with a modified choke.... why you chose not to use one of your open bore guns. Could it be that you, too, are more accepting of an inedible duck than one which flew away carrying a few pellets in its flesh?

Well said, Mike.

With a lifetime (well, not quite a lifetime I hope ) of upland and waterfowl gunning in my rear view mirror, and all that using choked guns, I have had very few mangled birds beyond use. If we all agree that it is unethical to take a shot at a bird that is too long, especially when a cripple may be unrecoverable, why can we not agree that it is also the trigger-man's responsibility to also refrain from taking a point blank shot? I often wait a second until the bird has put a slight distance between itself and me when using very tight chokes. I control my trigger finger, the amount of choke in my barrel doesn't.

SRH

I've never heard using dogs for upland birds described as "sneaking up on them". Quite often, dogs are wearing some sort of noisemaker (bell or beeper) so their handler can keep track of them in heavy cover. Kinda cuts down on the sneaking thing.

I'd separate both turkey hunting (which is more akin to big game hunting than it is bird hunting--stalking or sitting quietly, shooting the birds on the ground) and dove hunting (you're not really hunting, but rather waiting for the birds to come to you) from the rest of upland hunting, where you're walking birds up. With or without a dog. Shots for those games, in general, just aren't that long. And I'd say guys who haven't seen mangled birds haven't seen enough birds. I went to cyl in the R barrel of my grouse and woodcock gun this season (20ga Sauer), shooting 7/8 oz 8 1/2. Turned out to be a lot more woodcock (which are shot, on average, at closer range than grouse anyhow) than grouse, and it worked just fine. Used the same gun right up to the end of woodcock season, by which time shots were longer than when the leaves were on. Birds were still coming down consistently dead. For 20 years, until Iowa pheasant numbers started to decline significantly, I averaged 65 wild roosters/year. Hunting over dogs, I never felt that I needed the first barrel to be any tighter than IC. Matter of fact, at the end of that 2 decade span, I was alternating between a pair of Brit 12's. Both were choked .005 in the R barrel. That's not cyl, but it's not a whole lot more either.

Choke for upland hunting--when you're walking up birds--is highly overrated. Assuming you have a decent dog and know how to hunt, that is. For the vast majority of hunters, it will be much more of a handicap than a help. For those few who are champion trap or SC shots, full can be useful. For most . . . well, read Mr. Brister.