doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Trying to figure out my Baker Batavia Leaders

The top gun part in each picture is the Folsom gun. The middle one, with a 49000+ serial number 16 ga, I believe is about a 1919-20 Baker Gun Co. gun possibly assembled by Folsom and the bottom one 100000+ serial number is about a 1910 12 ga, I think.

WHAT I MAINLY WANT TO KNOW IS WHETHER THE 16 IS A BAKER OR FOLSOM GUN AND APPROX. DATE OF MFG.

These two pics show different lumps for each one; the two 12s being almost the same; the 16, quite different also with a fine crosshatch on the bottom.





This shows that the 16 ga does not have the firing pin retaining screw; the other two do. Atleast, I think that is what it is. Also, each one has a little different thickness of triggers.


This pic shows the different sizes of bars. The bottom one, the old 12 ga with twist barrels measures 1.589 across the knuckle; the top one, the Folsom 12, measures 1.489. The middle one is the 49000 number range and a 16 ga. a little different shaped that slims further back than the 12s and it measures 1.265 at the knuckle. Bottom receiver has a three way safety.


This one shows the Folsom has a different rib and the 49000 range 16 rib has 'Baker Gun Co., Makers, Batavia, N. Y.' on the rib.



This one shows a little difference in the forends with the oldest one having an ebony tip.

I don't have a difinitive answer, but I only find the cocking arm as on your 16-gauge on an H & D Folsom Arms Co. era parts list. It isn't in any of my Baker Gun Co. catalogues.

2holer, you have the Batavia Leaders figured out pretty well. Nice helpful pictures, too.

Starting at the bottom of your pics, that is the early Batavia Leader, which by definition should have Twist barrels. At about the serial no. of your gun, the forends changed a bit and the horn tip was discontinued. This model went from 75000 to about 106,000 serial range and was discontinued around 1912, give or take a year.

The middle gun, the 16 gauge appears very late in the Baker Gun and Forging Co. production. Around 1917-1919. A Folsom catalog, before the Folsom takeover, will show that cocking hooke as the "new" design. These guns had Belgian fluid steel barrels. Baker Gun and Forging Co. used a bit smaller frame on their 16 gauges, relative to the 12 ga. This model used the sideplate to retain the firing pin.

The upper gun, as you say, is a Folsom made Baker gun. This model used the original Baker cocking rod mechanism and was furnished with fluid steel barrels. The Folsom made Baker guns seem to have a narrower bar than the ones by Baker Gun and Forging Co. Serial numbers for the Folsom Batavia Leaders are found in the 1F-17,000F serial no. range. Later guns showed decreased workmanship and none of the Folsom Leaders were finished as well as the Baker Gun and Forging Co. Leaders.

Thanks Researcher and Daryl. It seems that I had heard before that the Folsoms weren't as well finished.

Here is something interesting; a drilled out receiver bar on the Baker 16 mentioned before. Those have been found on L. C. Smiths also; I guess for lighter weight.

2holer, that recess is interesting. I have seen similar on a 12 ga Baker Paragon, but on that gun the bottom of the recess was flat without the three drill points .

I measured 22/32" across one bar where it meets the standing breech; the bottom of the milled out flat surface to the side of the bar is 13/32" and the bottom of the drill points 16/32". The gun balances 1/4" in front of the hinge pin center.

The drilled out Elsie is on Picture Trail. Looks like the holes were drilled all the way through with nothing milled out. Says it may been done to balance the gun where the customer wanted it or to meet weight requirement.

http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/15234180

I believe the chambers in the 16 ga. is 2 9/16"; is this correct?