October
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Who's Online Now
4 members (SKB, dukxdog, VintageProf, 1 invisible), 502 guests, and 6 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics39,492
Posts562,030
Members14,585
Most Online9,918
Jul 28th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 335
Likes: 7
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 335
Likes: 7
As a result of going to the Vegas Antique Arms Show, I bought a very rare, cased E. J. Churchill, 410 ga Crown Grade BLE (SN 4614).

I walked by the gun for 2 days before I realized, wait Churchill didn't make XXVs in .410, or if they did, this gun must be really rare. It turns out this gun came from the late Robert Peterson collection. It has been published that Pre-WW2 Churchill catalogs did not list .410s as available.

Barrel address and trade label show Churchill's located at “61 Pall Mall, St. James’s, London, England". (Wrong address for 1931, but more on that later)
“XXV” gold inlaid near breech. The gun has 25” barrels with Churchill rib, choked .002/IC, .012/IM.
Nitro proved, 5 tons per square inch, and marked for 3” shells. Straight stock measuring 14 1/2” to thin horn buttplate.
The gun weighs 4 lbs even.

This gun was one of 10 serial numbers allocated in July 1931 for 3” chambered .410 XXV Crown Grade guns ordered for stock by Churchill possibly from John Harper. The Serial numbers were assigned starting with 4613.

At the time American & British .410s was written, only 5 pre-WW2 Churchill .410s of any configuration had surfaced. The sole XXV .410 was a sibling from my gun's 1931 order, SN 4616.
(American & British .410 Shotguns, Ron Gabriel)

Ron Gabriel's research showed that only 8 of 10 (4613 to 4620) numbers appear to have been used. The guns were retailed from 1932 to 1936.

Only 3 other Churchill XXV .410s have appeared at auction since 1997 when 4616 surfaced.

The auction listings.

4613, BLNE, Sotheby’s 2006 (Lead gun of the 1931 order)
4614, BLE, Little John’s Auction Service 2011 (my gun)
4615, BLE, Christie’s, 2001
4616, BLE, Holt’s, 1997

As you look at the pictures you'll notice the action has lost it's case coloring, but the blueing of the barrels and furniture is nearly perfect. The checkering is crisp and the stock is nearly perfect. A refinish? Perhaps. I am leaning toward a rebarreling/refurbish in 1978 by Churchill.
There is a Birmingham view mark for 1978. The proof marks are the one's in use from 1954-1989. The barrel engraving, trade label and Churchill box of bore swabs all use the 61 Pall Mall address. In the Churchill book, Don Masters has a photo of the trade label used in my case. The description of the photo says it was only used from 1978-1981 (The House of Churchill, pg 456.)

Toby Barclay, Heritage Guns, told me once that when a gun is rebarreled in the UK, the firm doing the work can only engrave their firm's name on the barrels unless they are the actual maker or licensed by the actual maker. Therefore it was either rebarreled by Churchill or someone in the trade allowed to use the Churchill name on their work. It would have been equally correct to put the current address on the barrels when the work was done. (Brits please correct me if I understand this incorrectly.)








I want to offer a special thanks to our own DGM. He was in Vegas helping me shop. DGM also helped me with the Internet research.

Rocketman will want to add this to his database the next time we get together. The Southern in April?

All this research has yet to reveal, who does Churchill records these days?

Joe

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,768
Likes: 115
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,768
Likes: 115
I can see why you fell in love with it. Lagopus.....

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 787
Likes: 45
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 787
Likes: 45
Nice one Joe!
Toby

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 175
Likes: 10
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 175
Likes: 10
Joe,

Churchill 4620, also a 410 with a 25in bbl, sold at Abercrombie & Fitch as a consigned shotgun for $600 in 1962. The model is not recorded but at that price it is likely another XXV. I suspect that yours was offered at a bit higher price. Beautiful Churchill.


Bob Beach
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,447
Likes: 278
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,447
Likes: 278
I was at the NFM this week looking at some of Bob Petersen's guns. I'm not sure I didn't see a Churchill .410. Have your new friend run over there and check. He lives very close to the museum. I have had my monthly trip over there for February. By the way, Whelen's Springfield is still missing from its assigned location. I know where it is and will say something to them next trip.

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,447
Likes: 278
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,447
Likes: 278
Petersen's Churchill .410 is in "Case C", the Holland and Holland case. I don't know the serial number, but one of the curators could look it up for you. Give them a call. It is visible on the NFM website, but no serial number visible. It is loaded up with color, a nice gun indeed. Congratulations on your find.

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 362
Likes: 9
DGM Offline
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 362
Likes: 9
Here's the link to Peterson's Churchill:

http://www.nramuseum.com/the-museum/the-...gun-410-ga.aspx

I haven't seen the Peterson exhibit in person yet, but the NRA museum website has lots of photos. Looks very impressive, I might stop by this week after shooting Bull Run.

I saw Joe's .410 in Vegas, its really a lovely gun.


"When you have to shoot, Shoot! Don't talk." - Tuco

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,883
Likes: 19
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,883
Likes: 19
Beautiful find Joe. Congratulations.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 206
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 206
I bought #4615 July 18th 2001 for about Ł2500. I had one more in the 80's but I have no record of the number. The one I bought in 01 I shot very well with it at high driven pheasants and partridge

Good luck with your's Joe.


John Foster
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,447
Likes: 278
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,447
Likes: 278
Daryl, you are really missing out if you haven't seen the Petersen Room yet. I took a couple of friends over last week and we probably spent more than an hour just in that room. It is the greatest display of shotguns that I can imagine anywhere. The .410s are astounding.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.145s Queries: 35 (0.120s) Memory: 0.8571 MB (Peak: 1.9024 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2025-10-06 22:25:53 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS