doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com JP Sauer vs. Simson vs. Merkel Post-War

I have recently started to look at post-war German SxSs and have noticed a lot of similarity in the design of the receivers. Could anyone shed any light on this?

For Suhl guns, the short version is "same gun, same design, same workers, same factory, different label".

The long version comes out at book length or longer.

The biggest issue is whether the gun was stamped as Q1 or export quality. If it was, with proper care it will outlive you and me both.

Dave- where is the "Q1" stamp? Barrel flats? Water table?

thanks

Hi, the Quality stamps are normally found on one of the bbl lugs.

Here's a quick run down on the Quality Marks found on DDR Guns:

Q1 (since the early 60s) and �S� (until 1960) = superior quality over the average level of the world market
1 = good quality on the average level of the world market
2 = sufficient quality; adequate but below world market level

These marks are found only on DDR (East German) guns. Guns that are pre-war or West German won't have these marks.

Best of luck to you!

Greg

Here are a couple of pictures with the Q1 mark on them.

The first is a Merkel SxS 47E, made in 1969.

The second is a Merkel O/U 200E made in 1961.

Even pre-WWII, there were a lot of similarities in Suhl sxs from the various makers. Somewhat similar to A&D boxlocks coming out of Birmingham with a lot of different names.

But just remember . . . those postwar GDR guns were made by evil Commies!

Larry, the government was communist. The Gunmakers were subjects.

If this was a political forum someone might be tempted to draw a parallel to GM. But I would never go there!

Having seen the insides and outsides of a lot of GDR guns I never saw much difference in the different quality levels. I think they are all very well put together.

Ha! Good one, Mark. I keep trying to promote the "evil Commie" thing in order to bring the prices down.

Is it fair to characterize the post-war Simson, J.P Sauer and Merkel as good, better, best, at least along similar models, with the fit, finish and detailing creating the difference?

I don't think it would be fair. If you look at the print catalogs put out by the DDR for Suhl-made shotguns, say from the 80s, they will have the same gun with the Merkel name on the one page of the catalog, and the Simson name on the facing page. So, like I said, "Same gun, same design, same factory, same workers, different name". I think any variation in quality is the result more of the day of the week than the name on the barrels. Remember, these were all made by Germans and they didn't stop being Germans merely because of some change in government.

As to Sauers, remember there were East German Sauers and West German Sauers, the former being the "original" factory/company in Suhl taken over by the East German government and consolidated into the other companies in Suhl. The West German Sauer was formed by the Sauer family/owners when they jumped the fence to the West and restarted the business from scratch. I think it's fair to say the East German Sauers are the equal of the other East German guns and they and the West German Sauers are at least as good.

In the end analysis, though, this kind of hair-splitting is like arguing which shot size is best for pheasant.