doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What new sxs to buy at a specific price point?

I don't think you can buy a decent SXS for under $1000.00 unless it was a 311 or a Savage Fox or a Miroku. Maybe the Miroku would be my choice since I did buy one for $350.00 a few years back. There certainly aren't any new SXSs for under $1000.00 that I would waste my money on. For all of the other prices, a Model 21 would be my choice if I could still find one for around $2000.00. Maybe when I got to around $2000.00, I would consider an Ansley H. Fox, but not a Sterlingworth. I never cared much for them. I would probably go to Doug Turnbull for a refurbished Fox for around $2000.00+. Good luck.

Nitros are still a good buy,...most places. Win M12 12g guns are also good deals.

Thanks revdocdrew for the link to the thread on the 16ga society page, it was very good.

What I am getting from the rest of you is that given a choice most all buyers of a side by side would buy used rather than new.

Given that a lot of you have a lot of guns, and thus have a decent amount of money invested in total this area, I think it's not that you couldn't afford a new side by side if you really wanted one, it's that you probably choose not to do so.

Am I off base in what I seem to be getting here as the reasons for this?:
1) SXS users are primarily hunters so the guns will get blemished anyway so why waste the money on new.
2) That a clays shooter is not apt to purchase a sxs for this purpose, and since in that intended use a gun stays in pretty fresh aesthetic condition these guys might be more apt to purchase new because of the hard use they will put the gun through.
3) Unlike a car that most of us start out with used but dream of new, that guns are more utilitarian than cars and new is just not as important. And with this is that a used gun is apt to have a lot more life left in it than a used car.
4) Used guns are older and thus better made, so that a new gun at even 2X-5X the price is in reality less of a gun.
5) For the price of one new you can have several used in different bores and styles to better fit the various game you hunt and different conditions you hunt in.

If I am not off base for the possible reasons I surmise above, maybe the used argument makes a lot of sense for an expensive to manufacture shotgun design as a sxs.

Dave

Dave, you left out the emotional attachment many double owners have for their guns, with a heritage, a feeling of belonging to and being a part of a particular place and a particular time, a pride of having guns owned by a sort of classless society where the affluent had higher grades and commoners the lower by the same maker, when people were valued generally more for what they could do then their parentage. To some it is a craving. I'd be a poseur with a Purdey.

Hi Dave,
I agree with your question #4 and 5. I think you are trying to ask too many questions at once. I'd suggest trying to decide what you want first, then what you want to spend, then start looking. Used guns that you can buy in the $1000-2000 range can be of a quality that will never be made again, and darn sure not found in what you can buy new, for that money. You won't learn much by reading gun reviews other than that the reviewers are usually full of crap, barely re-writing factory release letters. You might learn some specs, if you know what specs you are looking for.

Dave - You're overthinking this. Do what Jim Legg suggested. You buy an older American double because the likes of these will never be seen again. I for one do not care much for the Italian guns and don't know enough about the English ones to venture there. I shoot clays with a sxs because they are the only guns I own, besides an A-5. Figure out your budget and go from there.

First ask yourself, What do I want to shoot (quail, ducks, clays, etc.)?

How much money can I raise for this venture?

Work backward from there, to the gun itself.

I'll attempt to answer as someone who has owned both new and old doubles and most recently having purchased 2 pre-war doubles.

"1) SXS users are primarily hunters so the guns will get blemished anyway so why waste the money on new."

Response: While a lot of SxS users prize these guns for their handling and hunting characteristics, I suspect a fine old double isn't purchased so it can be further blemished (my "beater" is a 12ga 870 express combo slug/30", Wal-Mart clearanced at $264, my Fox SW 12ga is worn and blemished, but I'll do my best not to add any wear and tear to my fine older guns).

"2) That a clays shooter is not apt to purchase a sxs for this purpose, and since in that intended use a gun stays in pretty fresh aesthetic condition these guys might be more apt to purchase new because of the hard use they will put the gun through."

Response, I agree if you are speaking of serious competition shooters, although I have probably fired nearly an equal number of shots at clays and birds through my SxS shotguns.

"3) Unlike a car that most of us start out with used but dream of new, that guns are more utilitarian than cars and new is just not as important. And with this is that a used gun is apt to have a lot more life left in it than a used car."

Response: Unlike cars, a new SxS is not likely better made, and if so, will cost more than most can afford.

"4) Used guns are older and thus better made, so that a new gun at even 2X-5X the price is in reality less of a gun."

Response: See #3, I agree, for the money an older SxS (American or European) is likely better made than what you could buy new.

"5) For the price of one new you can have several used in different bores and styles to better fit the various game you hunt and different conditions you hunt in."

Response: Not really. There are several inexpensive new SxS shotguns selling for prices well below the price of old Fox, Parker, Ithaca or L C Smith.

Some additional thoughts. The older SxS if you shop (and purchase) carefully and take care of it, will likely appreciate. On the down side, I have recently purchased two old SxS shotguns, a Fox Sterlingworth in 12ga and a French 16ga (pre-war). These older guns have some liabilities that I willingly accept, but you may not. Both of these older guns had some age related issues (the Fox, SW with some help of Fox forum members I managed to fix myself) and the French 16ga is at Kirk Merrington for a new firing pin. Like an older car (or home) there will be some cost associated with ownership that might not attend a newer shotgun. Also, you need to use care in what you feed the older doubles. Many were not designed to use the higher-pressure loads.

Doug

Dave, This is how I see it. As an example I'll use the Fox Sterlingworth. You can find decent shootable guns for around $1000. It may not have case colors and the blue may be a little worn but it's shooting qualities and the quality of the gun are still there. I bought one that was completely restored (expertly done) for $1150 a few years ago. It is a beauty but a collector wouldn't touch it. My reasoning for buying it was that if someone where to try and build a Sterlingworth today it would cost much much more than what I paid. I can not buy even a foreign double new with the built in quality of that Fox. Sure there is also alot of beet and worn crap available but there are many good serviceable guns to be found that are used. This is true with the other American doubles also. A $1000 can get you some quality used Belgian or guild guns. They may not have the name but they are good guns never the less. You can find and compare many on the web sites. Guns are mechanical instruments that can break down. Used more likely to but new can also.

Simply put Dave, old guns have soul. New ones don't. Enjoy your search.