doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Seeking advice on my first English Double SXS

I'm planning to buy my first English Double and have been doing a lot of reading on the topic as well as browsing auctions online. I'm sure there is an immense variety of opinion on this topic, so let me lay out the scenario. I really do not want 2 1/2" chambers nor do I want Damascus barrels; I want a gun that can shoot conventional ammo. For instance, I bid over $10K on a 20 Gauge WC Scott Premier, but lost by 3K.. I also bid on a Purdey that went for 18K missed it by a bit.. In both cases they were older guns great shape & chambered for 2 3/4. Any advice on something I may be overlooking? I like the WC Scott's, and naturally like the H&H and Purdey guns, but they are obviously pretty pricey.. much over $15K and I�m outside my comfort zone... Just looking for opinions and general thoughts on the matter.. Thanks

ManOwar ,welcome . Boy have you asked an open question ! I guess the replies and advice will go on for weeks . My best advice is to go carefully ,there is a lot over over priced junk out there. Auctions may seem a good idea but then a lot of people put guns in auctions to get rid of them as they do not want to sell them themselves . Think long and hard pick two or three guns you like and get every thing checked before you part with money . Every one is your friend when they want to sell but not many are if you want it back . Gook luck .

Thanks for the quick response. Yes, I have seen many altered guns and lots of really overpriced guns.. I have tried to stick with guns that have some history with them.. and yes, I�m sure my question will get loads of opinions, but that's what I�m looking for... sound advice...

You will get a lot of advice on this inquiry, but gunman synthesized the essence of it very well.

Hammerless Purdeys and H&Hs with 2.75" chambers, standard length steel barrels and "history" are not going to be found for under $15k - absent a sleeving or bad stocking job. You would be better off looking for "first tier" Birmingham or "second tier" London makers like Westley Richards, Evans, Powell, Wilkes, Ford, AA Brown, Boswell - they made high quality guns that may be found in great condition at or below your price range.

Guns are generally sold at auction for one of two reasons - they can't be sold elsewhere or they are collectible and the seller is trying to get a bunch of collectors to bid up the price. Even if you find a potentially good price without any lurking defect(s), the buyer's premium reduces the opportunity for a deal - a 20% buyer's premium on a $15k hammer price adds $3000 to the settlement price. And if you have someone prepare condition reports, the cost of those can add up if you end up kissing a lot of frogs first.

Many Brit sxs that could not sell in the UK have found their way to the States and are now sitting in dealers' inventories, overpriced and not in the original condition typically claimed. It may be worth considering looking in the UK and importing - the import fees are going to add $500-750 to the price but, for the right gun in your price range, that could be justified. You will also need to make sure you trust the dealer you are working with because returns to the UK can be a little tricky

Firstly, what do you want the gun for? I mean, hunting or clay pigeons? Do you want a sidelock or a boxlock? What gauge are you looking for? Do you want a heavy or light gun? There are lots of flavors out there in all price ranges.

Hi MOW, good advise from all the above folks, well worth following

I'll just add my 2 worth, for what it's worth. It seems like you've done your homework and are more than likely aware of issues like barrel wall thickness etc. So I guess that can be a moot subject unless you have any questions regarding general inspection of doubleguns.

What I'd like to bring up is the 2 3/4" chambers you want. My question is why? There is no upland game bird that can't be killed with a properly loaded 2 1/2" shell. I know from first hand experience on wild birds. 2 1/2" loads do work and 1 oz or 1 1/16oz will do the trick. There are plenty of good 2 1/2" loads out there that are not anymore expensive than good quality 2 3/4".

Another point is, I trust if you do get a Brit gun with 2 3/4" chambers you won't be shooting any modern American loads in it. Brit guns are proofed to a different standard. Our ammo is generally high pressure compared to Brit standards. The pressures for Brit guns proofed to 3 1/4 Tons PSI (2 3/4") is 9600psi our 2 3/4" ammo runs about 11,000psi or more. If you shoot our ammo in a Brit gun you run some risks of damage to the stock as well as the action and perhaps the bbls if they are thin.

Your not really going to gain anything by getting a Brit gun with 2 3/4" chambers. I'd suggest that you stick with 2 1/2" in a gun that is excellent condition and with proper loads won't fail you on any game that flys.

I also agree with Ham, I'd stay away from auctions and stick with good reliable dealers.

I wish you the best of luck in your search, remember, looking is half the fun!

Greg

Thanks for the advice - there was a purdey at the most recent James Julia Firearms auction that looked pretty good and met the criteria went for about 20K which with buyer premium would be about 22K... regarding the Birmingham guns, yes, from what i have read there are many that are as good as or better than London's Best. Thanks

Hi again, forgot to mention if you have any doubts on 2 1/2" loads, look at the thread "Favorite Game/Gun Pictures" on this forum. All the posts I made of my hunts using Brit guns were all taken with 2 1/2" 1oz loads in either 12 or 16 bore.

Just food for thought.

Good luck!

Greg

I want a light gun, sidelock or box doesn't really matter to me.. hunting quail and grouse, shooting some clays.. the reason i'm buying and English is 1) I've not had one so i'm treating myself 2) albiet i love some of the new italian guns i don't consider them investments.. I beleive from what i have learned in my research that given the right purchase price a nice English double is better than money in the bank.. plus it will be a thrill to own such a gun and use it...

Hi MOW, I agree with you, nothing like a good English gun, be be warned, they are like a drug!! I started out with one, thinking that would be fine. I now own 14!! So....beware!!! It's a slippery slope, but a fun one!!!!

Best!

Greg