doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ithaca barrels

Who made the Damascus barrels for Ithaca?

Unfortunately, the maker's marks were usually ground off the rough forged tubes when the tubes were joined, fit, and finished. To my knowledge, the only mark found to date has been the "HRF" of Heuse-Riga Fils on a Flues, but it is very likely tubes were sourced from other Vesdre valley makers
More infro here https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=17yCstxftvWXpFdSru4JKbRIE1-Q8OqXgJs66tEXntqw

Examples, mostly courtesy of Bro. Walt, are here
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/20991622

Does the Damascus on the higher grade Ithacas compare with British damascus in quality?

Most 'British' damascus was Belgian

Letters to Young Shooters: (First series) On the choice and use of a gun
Ralph William Frankland-Payne-Gallwey 1892
There is, however, some little uncertainty about our English Damascus. Really good English Damascus barrels, when they can be obtained, are superior to Belgian; but those of English make vary considerably in their excellence. They are also produced in much smaller quantities, and are often difficult to obtain just as required. The Belgian Damascus are more regular as to figure, and more free from 'specks' and 'greys,' than are the English, besides being softer, and easier to work. For these reasons many of our gun-makers find it simpler to procure their barrels from Belgium, as there is a very small percentage of inferior quality imported from that country, and as many as wanted can also be easily procured at short notice. As it is the fashion of English sportsmen to imagine that nothing good in the way of guns or barrels can reach us from the Continent, Belgian Damascus, in order to fall in with this popular delusion, is often sold as English. Still, if a gun is fitted with best Damascus, whether of English or foreign make, it is of small consequence to the shooter; but the fact remains, that so-called English Damascus is frequently Belgian, and that the Belgian barrels of this manufacture are, generally speaking, more reliable than those made in England.

More here https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1YJxP1k3PzmtmrG1HEGxd8X6g0-1GL0KNY8WMIMkdKr0

Drew, thanks for the information.

I seem to recall mention of American Damascus barrels ("American flag" or something like that) on some Ithaca guns. Has it ever been confirmed one way or the other whether that falls into the urban legend category?

"Uncle Bob" Edwards produced twist before Remington's new fangled 'decarbonized steel' became the barrel material of choice



The June, 1909 Outer's Book, A Magazine of Outdoor Interest had an article about "Uncle Bob" which stated that from 1861-1865 he worked in Brookton, an Ithaca N.Y. suburb, where there was a barrel factory making steel barrels for the U.S. Government, and iron and stub twist barrels for the local gunsmiths and gunmakers of the period. The stub twist barrels were made of horseshoe nails brought in by the country's blacksmiths. "...to the best of his knowledge today he was the only man in the United States working at barrel boring who ever made twist and damascus barrels."

To my knowledge, the only crolle damascus produced in the U.S. that appeared on an American gun was on Wesson Firearms Co. Springfield, Mass. c. 1870





Letters in The Chicago Field in 1878 state that a barrel forger named John Blaze of Birmingham, England had immigrated to America to make Wesson's barrels. He was listed in the 1865 Worchester, Mass. City Directory as a 'Gunsmith', and 1878-1881 as a 'Blacksmith.' Whether he left Wesson for Parker's employ after Dan Wesson shut down his shotgun production in December 1870 is uncertain. Other Wesson gunmakers did take jobs with Parker, including Charles A. King.

More here https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=12y9006Ur7mMCqdeeye89c7L4DQrc2iXR8p4S6OIN1bA

interesting Drew.

Distant relatives, the Losey barrel mill was in Brocktondale, in the town of Caroline NY - (Losey-Lull for a time) the sons having moved from their father's Trumansburg NY "gun factory".

According to a note I saved from a Walter Snyder post here done back in 2007 - Bob Edwards lived across the road from the barrel mill. From the history I have seen - the barrel mill did not produce shotgun barrels. But Mr Snyder's comment said Bob Edwards was connected to Ithaca in 1883, at which point I believe the Losey millhad gone out out busines and the building converted to a blanket factory.

also - just a thought - the image above lists Bob Edwards as a "barrel borer" not a maker. doesn't a barrel borer finish tubes already made?

I own a number of Ithaca guns with damascus tubes. Overall they have the thickest barrels of any damascus guns I have measured. I would put them up against any other. They had a wide array of patterns. As for quality, I am still waiting to see a British produced damascus tube with a name twisted into the damascus.

Drew is correct about sourcing By 1903 the English had stopped making damascus according to Greener. In 1906 Liege proofed 150,000 shotgun barrel sets. I am sure they made their way into many markets.

As for Bob Edwards and his claims. There simply is no proof that he ever produced damascus barrels for Ithaca as he claims. At the very best, he could have done a tube or two of twist. Production levels would require a rolling mill for any thing else.

I will leave it to Walt if he cares to comment on the subject.

Pete

I think Pete has stated my thoughts well. An early report of a factory tour states barrels were imported. I don't doubt Bob Edwards did in fact make a damascus or twist steel barrel or two or maybe more when at the Brockton works (I believe mostly rifle barrels were made there) BUT never any for Ithaca Gun Co. shotgun production.