doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Fox case colors

What did the original case colors on the Fox shotguns look like. Are there some pictures I could look at?

Also I'm finding that American shotguns lose value when they have been restored. Obviously a pristine original is of more value then a restored gun, but an unrestored tramp worth more then a restored one? I don't think so.

Check out the pictures of different grades on the Fox collectors site.
Bob Jurewicz

The first few years of manufacture, Fox case colored their receivers using the bone and charcoal method.....but after about 1912 up into the Savage ownership all their guns were Cyanide Case Colored by:

Fred Heinzelman & Sons
790 Washington Avenue, Carlstadt, N.J. 07072....201-933-4800
Still in business today and still doing cyanide case colors on guns....

The value drops on most restored guns because people use the wrong materials and restoration theme no matter how good the actual work is......such as bone charcoal CCH on a Fox or Sterlingworth when it should be Cyanide.........they OVER restock the wood grades (way too much figure) and the wood patterns, i.e. fluted combs when there was NO flute on the Sterlingworth combs etc....details, details, details......

It goes without saying that guns where clowns with the big buffing wheels ruin everything, are complete junk......

If any gun is restored properly, you should NOT be able to tell it has been restored.....leave off the gaudy stuff and the recoil pads (use a leather slip on if you must), leave off the ghetto wood etc., use original grade wood for replacement....... CCH only parts that were originally CCH'd, not the entire gun, forend etc.,unless original........

Do a little research--homework first as to what was what and how the gun looked when it left the factory based on the grade you're working on, you'd be surprised how much value YOU ADD if you keep the factory theme and how people will fight over it at a gun show when you sell it......

Unfortunately most people just don't care anymore and will argue they want it "their" way and that's that...........which is fine, to each his own........

Here's my 1929 Fox Sterlingworth with 100% Factory Original Cyanide Case Colors & barrel blue to view per your request.....

In the early years of Fox the guns were bone case hardened (like Parkers, Smiths, etc.). Circa WWI, they moved to a cyanide based process which continued during the Savage years.

Really? You've studied some bonafied restorations; noted the cost of the project gun, the cost of time and materials to restore/refurbish/upgrade/customize it, and found the gun was then worth LESS than it was before?

That's not been my experience. I've refurbished/upgraded more than a few American shotguns and I'm absolutely certain I can sell every one tomorrow for more than I have invested in it. Notice I didn't say "restored." While I can appreciate someone's effort in restoring a tan, 4 door sedan with vinyl seats, I have no interest in owning one, much less investing my time and money to pull it off. The value I place on my guns is satisfaction of a project completed and pride of ownership.

Perhaps you've heard a few people bloviate on the subject and you're confusing their "value" with market value. And when it comes to market value, I'm heartily amused at the agony some people suffer over the loss of a few hundred dollars on a $10,000 shotgun "investment." I wonder what percentage of these people have spent $30,000 on a truck and then had it appreciate?

I totally agree, and especially if the gun has been used after the restoration and shows some normal handling wear. Many "experts" have been fooled by guns like this.

SRH

No I haven't studied Fox restorations. The questions I have posed are the beginning of that study.

Did AH Fox guns come with beaver tail forends or English stocks as a standard option? Were these things special order? Thanks

Mike:

Here's a nice RESTORED 4-door sedan, vinyl seat 1966 Dodge 426-Hemi with all matching numbers that sold for a little over $250,000.00......so I guess 4-doors and vinyl seats have their place.....? .......Some like "glitz" and some like "horsepower"....... Or would you just say there "are exceptions"...?...

To each his own I suppose....

Yes Stan my opinion as well, that is pretty much what the British and Europeans have always done.....they freshen up their guns every so often without adding "glitz or sequins"......then continue using them as they have always done.......makes sense to me........

BTW---PM reply to your PM question posted Stan.......

Best,