doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Williams and Powell

I got my hand on a nice underlever 12 bore hammer gun by this firm a while back...it was put in a corner until time allowed for a once over ,
the barrels were a tad loose,nothing much considering its age but heres the thing on closer inspection yesterday I noticed the top rib was marked S.Partridge,23 market St,Warwick.

All the stamps are as we would expect,black powder proof ,not for ball etc.

Anyone have any thoughts on this ?

Thanks for your time,
Chris

All that is currently listed by IGC:

Samuel Partridge
42 Market Place and Hampton Street
Warwick
Warwickshire
United Kingdom
Trade Gunmaker
Dates 1878?

There were a number of Partridge's in the Birmingham area. Perhaps Samuel made up guns for Williams & Powell amongst others.

Again from IGC:

Williams & Powell
10 Pool Lane
13 South Castle Street
29 South Castle Street
5 Thomas Street (25 South Castle Street )
25 South Castle Street (48 Oldhall Street)
27 South Castle Street
Phoenix Chambers. ?
Liverpool
Lancashire
United Kingdom
Gunmakers
Dates 1780-1905

In 1833 Thomas Williams & Samuel Powell bought the business of Mrs Ann Patrick (formerly Edward Patrick and before that Jeremiah Patrick) at 10 Pool Lane, Liverpool. The business was established in 1780.

Thomas was born in 1799 in Bangor, Carnarvon, Wales; Samuel was born in Lancashire, probably in Liverpool, in 1801. They were probably apprenticed to and worked for the Patrick family. In 1834 they moved the business to 13 South Castle Street, and in 1837 they moved to 29 South Castle Street.

Thomas Williams was recorded in the 1841 census as a gun maker living in Neptune Street, Birkenhead, with two daughters, Mary Jane (b.1829) and Elizabeth Ann (b.1830) but no wife was recorded. Samuel Powell was also recorded as a gun maker in the census. He was living in Upper Warwick Street, Liverpool, with two daughters, Mary (b.1819) and Elizabeth (b.1824), but no wife was recorded.

In 1846 the partnership ended. It appears that Samuel died because he has not been found in any subsequent censuses, but the firm continued to trade as Williams & Powell.

The 1851 census records Thomas Williams as a master gun maker living at Park View, Claughton, Cheshire, with two previously unrecorded sons, Thomas W (b.1843) and John (b.1845), both born in Claughton. Thomas' first wife obviously died between 1845 and 1850 because by 1851 he had married his second wife, Elizabeth (nee Hughes), a widow born in 1813 in Cumbermere, Cheshire, who had a daughter named Elizabeth (b.1830).

In 1860 the firm moved to 25 South Castle Street. In the 1861 census Thomas, who described himself as a gun manufacturer, and Elizabeth, were recorded in Claughton with Thomas W and John, both described as gun makers, and another son, Henry H (Horton) who had been born in 1852.

In about 1870 the firm were appointed Gunmakers to HRH the Duke of Gloucester. From 1870 to about 1874 the firm occupied additional premises at 5 Thomas Street. In the 1871 census Thomas and Elizabeth's address was 1 Shrewsbury Road, Claughton (Park View). Of their children, only Henry was living at home, he was described as an 18 year old gun maker. In this census Thomas described himself as a gun maker employing 6 men and 5 boys and clearly, they were a large firm of gunmakers.

In the 1881 census Thomas, Elizabeth and Henry were living at the same address. Thomas was an 85 year old gun maker (not retired gun maker!). Thomas W appears to have died at some time after 1861 but John was recorded living at Spring Bank, Long Lane, Aughton, Lancashire. He described himself as a gun manufacturer and was obviously in control of the firm. By this time he was married to Caroline (b.1851 in Meeson, Shropshire). They had a son named Thomas W (b.1872 in Claughton) and two daughters, Carrie M (b.1874 in Aughton) and Laura E (b.1878 in Aughton).

From about 1890 to about 1894 the firm had additional premises at 48 Oldhall Street where they operated as wholesale and retail merchants and exporters. In about 1897 the firm were recorded as gun and cartridge makers at 27 South Castle Street.

In 1905 the firm was sold Westley Richards of the firm of W Richards (not Westley Richards & Co) but continued to trade as Williams & Powell. In 1909 they were recorded as gun makers at Phoenix Chambers, as was W Richards, but an alternative address has been reported at 1 Exchange Street West; this may be the address of Phoenix Chambers.

Some early guns were proved in London, no London address found.
The firm sold Kynoch Patent Grouse Ejector cartridges under their own name, they also sold cartridges under the names the "Castle" and "Express Sixteen" (post 1900).

Tim

Thanks so much Tim,I wonder if perhaps it was rebarreled by Partridge at some time,maybe blown original bbl's ,or perhaps like you said they may have assembled the gun for W&P.
Who know's for sure
Best,
Chris

Chris, the Williams & Powell name still exsists. If you check out W.Richards, Liverpool; which is now at Pocklington, Yorkshire. I call there from time to time. He makes W & P guns as Over/unders now and W.Richards guns as side by sides. W & P records no longer exsist though. Lagopus.....

Williams and Powell marked hammer gun can be of the highest order of design and finish. Maybe some of the most elaborate. Lots of lower finished guns, too.

Yeah and this one is pretty nice too,I'll post some pics later as I get it back together.

Thanks guys,
Chris

Fair to middlin' chance the barrels are "donor" sourced. As long as they can be put on face, I'd not worry about it.

DDA

I happen to have a Williams and Powell headed my way at this time.
TRW999, Thanks for posting this information.

What is the IGC that you cited?

My William and Powell circa 1875. All of the guns I have seen by this maker have been superb.

The Internet Gun Club: www.internetgunclub.com

This site, which has been talked about previously on here, is the labour of love of one man. In addition to a little-visited forum, it's brightest star is a comprehensive and searchable historical database of international gunmakers and others in related trades, with history and census information, as well as copies of appropriate gun case labels. It remains a work in progress and Tiger/John is always happy to receive additional information or data.

It's biggest problem is the server service it uses. Periodic absences and downtime have plagued the site over several years. However in recent months things appear to be getting back to normal. I use it often and am extremely grateful to John for what he has achieved.

Tim