doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Help with German guns

I try to buy one double gun a year and I'm starting to really lock down what I'm looking for next year.

A friend recently inherited a 16ga German sxs with beautiful relief engraving and a scalloped frame. It was restocked at some point with a huge beaver tail but other than that I love the gun. It's balanced and I was surprised by how attracted to the relief engraving I was.

I'd like to find a nice shooter with similar qualities but I don't know the first thing about German guns. What names should I be searching the auction sites for? Any shops that specialize in or carry a large selection of German sxs's?

Anything I should expressly stay away from?

I'd like

12 or 16 gauge
Around 28" barrels
Relief engraving
Scalloped frame
Smaller fore end (doesn't have to be splinter but NOT a beaver tail)
14-14.5" lop
Under $2000

Is this reasonable? I plan to shoot rabbits, ducks, grouse, and pheasants with it so it has to digest low pressure lead reloads and some occasional nice shot.

Thank you for any and all advice,
Pat

most all german guns made before ww2 are of fine quality. the ones made prior to ww1 are even finer. you should be able to find a nice field grade gun for around $1000. if you want relief engraving and ejectors, then your $2000 budget is appropriate.

gunsamerica and gunsinternational are good sources.

Ithaca 33
Also keep an eye on Simpson Ltd., look under "long guns".If you find one you like you don't have to mess around with bidding and if one is not like it is described, they are good about making it "right". For German guns, they usually indicate the proof(manuf.)date.
Mike

realize the barrels will likely be metric - 70CM will come out to about 27 1/2 inches - some are light bird guns but some tend to be heavier. it doesn't hurt to ask the weight

Sauer is a good standard to measure to but as Ed says - hard to find a prewar gun that - assuming proper condition - you wouldn't be happy with. The proof date in on the water table for a German gun made between the wars - i forget when it became standard

Ed, mein Fruend verruckt Flammenwerfer zum ersten Mal in diesem Forum, Sie haben Recht. Wir Sie Rosten Ihr Vogel mit-- Victor, Rego oder Harris in diesem Jahr??

In case Ithaca 33 does not understand German, I will translate- Ed, my crazy flamethrower friend, for once on this forum you are right. Are you roasting your bird (Turkey) with Victor, Rego or Harris this year. To further elaborate, I am a welder by trade, and Ed is commonly known as "Ed the torch" for his propensity for Fubaring receivers that were color case hardened when made by Parker, Hunter Arms, Ithaca and AH Fox- for whatever reason (warpage be damned I guess) God only knows- and Victor (the Steinway of oxy-acetylene torches) Rego and Harris, Smith and NCG are all well-known brands of such torches in the trade.

Ed causes ein Scheissesturm (you can probably guess what that means in German) here, as the rule pretty much is that no dealers should list guns for sale here-- Ed is as slipperly as the fabled Mr. Grinch about circumventing that, you will note he mentions both Guns America and Guns International, where he offers his shotguns to the unwary-- Ask him sometime if you like why then, he does not also use Gunbroker to peddle them vis a vis the Internet-- Does the German word "Verbotten" ring a bell for you- I would joint the German Gun Collectors if you are serious about obtaining a valid and shootable German "Schrottflinten"-- We have several very knowledgeable members on this BBS that are good solid men to ask- Raimey Ellenburg, Mike "Der Ami" and Jagermeister, just to mention a few. Run your requests towards them if you have a mind to do so- Viel gluck-- Der Fuchs!!

foxie: i do wish i had an exclusive on internet firearms for sale web sites, as you imply. but, alas, i do not. they actually do allow others to advertise there as well; much to my chagrin... meantime, feel better now, you hear. an take yo medication...hit would not be the same here widout your wit an sage input.

I sure like my Heym. Approx 1920. 16 gauge, 29" barrels. Paid well under $1500. Keep an eye out.

I suspect these two examples posted by OH and canvasback will give you a good idea of what you can buy in the $1000 to $2000 range in German and Austrian doubles. These IMO are among the most undervalued doubles available at this time but don't count on this situation going on forever.
I have a couple of my own and, if in the condition of the ones shown above, wouldn't think twice about acquiring more of them.
Jim

One additional item to investigate.
Chamber length.
Most of my older guns have 65mm chambers.
Not a problem, just an item
Mike

But a surprising number of Pre WWII German guns have 70mm chambers (2-3/4").