doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Value of Hollis sidelock ejector

Hollis Bentley & Playfair
Late production - 1954
Best quality Sidelock ejector
Super tight English scroll is sharp as new
30" bbls
Restored by Turnbull (barrels reblacked, wood refinished, and action recolor cased)
Beautiful wood with flat top checkering
Cased in modern Italian leather case

What should this gun fetch from a private individual? Any other info on this gun or maker would also be greatly appreciated!

Thanks for your help!!!!

From IGC:

Thomas Bentley was born in 1816 in Birmingham. His parentage is not known but he had a brother named Charles with whom he formed a partnership in 1861. Where Thomas served his apprenticeship is not known, but he established his own business as a gun finisher in 1840 in Great Russell Street. The 1841 census records him as a gun finisher living in Great Russell Street (no number stated) with his wife Louisa (b.1821 in Birmingham) and their children Louisa Emma (b.1838) and Hellen Margaret (b.1840). These dates show that Thomas was probably only 20 when he married and Louisa was only 15. In 1845 Charles Playfair (II) moved down from his father's business in Aberdeen, Scotland, to Birmingham. Who employed him is not known, at some time he may have worked on his own account. In 1849 he went into partnership with Thomas Bentley at 56 Summer Lane.

The firm was established to produce military and sporting guns, rifles, pistols and revolvers. They were contractors to the War Department and had sole manufacturing rights to Baker's central fire breech-loader, Erskine's eccentric action breech-loader and Walker's snap-action breech-loader, all of which were adapted to Eley's pin-fire and centre-fire cartridges. The firm made single barrelled shotguns for Holland & Holland. There seems to be no record of Charles in the 1851 census but Thomas was recorded as a gun maker employing 23 men. He was living at Ryland Road, Edgbaston with his wife Louisa and their children Louisa Emma (b.1838), and Hellen Margaret (b.1840). In about 1855 Charles Playfair married Thomas' daughter Louisa Emma. In 1860 the partnership moved to 315 & 316 Summer Lane. In 1861 Thomas Bentley formed a separate partnership at 315 Summer Lane with his brother Charles but this partnership, which also traded under the name of Bentley Brothers, was recorded only in that year. A Charles Bentley has been found in the censuses (of 1851 and 1861). He was a gun barrel filer (b.1824 in Birmingham) with a brother named John (b.1832) who was a "gunsmith finisher". This Charles may or may not be the same person. A Charles Bentley was recorded in 1863 but only in that year trading in Wilton Street.

The 1861 census records Thomas Bentley as a 45 year old master gun maker living at Soho Hill, Handsworth, with one servant. It may be that Louisa had died because Thomas appears to have married Sarah later in 1851. Charles Playfair does not appear to have been recorded. In 1861 Charles Playfair became a founder and a director of BSA. It has been suggested that at about this time the firm built "New Buildings" in Price Street, but they do not seem to have occupied these buildings themselves; if they did build them perhaps they were intended for the most important outworkers of the Bentley & Playfair partnership. The 1871 census records Thomas Bentley living at Richmond House, Sherborne Road, Acock's Green. This was in Yardley, Solihull, south of Birmingham. Thomas was living there with his new wife Sarah (b.1819 in Birmingham) and their children Mary Jane (b.1852) and Thomas Charles (b.1855). Charles Playfair, previously recorded in the 1868 Electoral Register and living at 315 Summer Lane, was recorded living almost next door at Bon Accord, Sherborne Road with his wife, Louisa Emma and their children Charles (b.1866), Louisa (b.1857), Helen (b.1864) and Kate (b.1869). Charles described himself as a gun maker employing 80 men and 20 boys so it may be that Thomas Bentley had retired but was still a partner in the business.

In 1872 Thomas Bentley and Charles Playfair became partners in Abingdon Works (Ltd), a manufacturing partnership founded by them and other gun and pistol makers. At some stage Charles Playfair became Chairman of the Birmingham Proof House. In the 1881 census Thomas Bentley was again recorded at Richmond House but by this time he was a widow and described himself simply as a gun maker. Sarah had died and Thomas was living with a cook and a one other servant. Charles Playfair, aged 57, was living at Bon Accord with his son Charles and a nurse and a cook. Louisa was away on the night of the census. Charles described himself as magistrate and gun maker employing 40 men and 10 boys.

In 1885 the firm opened a London shop at 20 High Holborn. In 1890 they moved it to 9 New Broad Street and in 1893 to 60 Queen Victoria Street. The 1891 census records Thomas Bentley, aged 85, living at Richmond House with Thomas C, aged 46. Both were described as gun manufacturers. They employed two servants. Charles Playfair was not recorded in this census because he had joined the 42nd Squadron of the Imperial Yeomanry and presumably was stationed in Belfast. On 19 November 1898 Charles (II) died leaving an estate valued at �34,182. Louisa died in October 1899. His son, the third Charles Playfair, took over from him, but not immediately because of the Boer War. He was a Captain in the 2nd Battalion Scottish Rifles which was sent to the Cape Colony and Orange Free State .

In the 1901 census Thomas and Thomas C were recorded living at Richmond House and described as gun manufacturers. They were living with two servants. Thomas Bentley died in January 1902 and presumably Thomas C took over with Charles Playfair joining him on his return from South Africa.In 1903 the firm became a limited liability company and named the premises in Summer Lane the Colmore Works. On 4 February 1908 Charles Playfair registered patent No. 2447 for a humane slaughtering tool. Charles Playfair was recorded in the 1911 census aged 45 living at 252 Bristol Road, Edgbaston, with his wife Rosa Jane (b.1867) and daughters Muriel Rosa (b.1890 in Belfast) and Ilfra Thirza (b.1897 in Belfast). Charles described himself as a gun and rifle manufacturer and held the rank of Major in the Special Reserve. They employed a cook and a housemaid. Charles Playfair died on 14 March 1941 at Grove Hill House, Grove Hill, Great Barr, Birmingham. Probate was granted to Dorothy Barnard, spinster. He left an estate valued at �287.2s.1d.

In 1911 Isaac Hollis & Sons and Bentley & Playfair Ltd amalgamated to become Hollis, Bentley & Playfair. The Birmingham factory in Lench Street was named the Colmore Works, and in London the firm moved to Bentley & Playfair's old London premises at Atlantic House, 46a Holborn Viaduct.

In 1914, at the start of the First World War, the company bought the business of Clabrough & Johnstone and they both occupied 143 Holborn. In 1915 the two firms entered into a joint venture to try and win government contracts. This joint venture, named Standard Small Arms Co Ltd, was located at 90 Cannon Street. In 1916 in Birmingham, Hollis, Bentley & Playfair moved to 16-17 Loveday Street. From 1920 to 1923 the business of Hollis, Bentley & Playfair (Isaac Hollis & Sons) occupied 54 Clerkenwell Road. In Birmingham the business continued as Hollis, Bentley & Playfair only to change to Hollis, Bentley & Playfair (I Hollis & Sons) in 1925. In 1924 the London business changed to trade from 54 Clerkenwell Road both as I Hollis & Sons and as Hollis, Bentley & Playfair (I Hollis & Sons). In 1926 the Birmingham factory at 16-17 Loveday Street was again named the Colmore Works. In 1931 the name Hollis, Bentley & Playfair was revived and the factory moved to 91-92 Lower Loveday Street.

From 1932 to 1933 the London business traded as Hollis, Bentley & Playfair from 84 Goswell Road and I Hollis & Sons from 54 Clerkenwell Road. Perhaps they were involved in different parts of the gun trade. From 1934 the London businesses traded under both names but only from 84 Goswell Road. From 1939 to 1943, when the London offices were closed, the business traded only as Hollis, Bentley & Playfair. Hollis, Bentley & Playfair finally closed in Birmingham in 1953.

Tim

Is this the same gun on Steve Barnetts website??? If so, that gun has been sitting at his shop for like two years if not longer at $4750 and hasn't moved.

Good eye there! I bought the gun but I decided to send it back. It had 2 repaired cracks in the stock!!!! Dang shame as its a beautiful gun!!!!

Thanks!

Adam, I see it as a BV3-OQ2-CC5 = $4208. Third tier brand name, "A" grade SLE, in restored condition. If you want, I'll bracket the estimate value for you.

DDA

Interesting evaluation. I'd love to hear more about the method. Do you have an email I can contact you thru? Your PM box is full.

Adam

Rocketman,

I am very interested in your pricing system, as well. Are there posts explaining the details archived here somewhere that you can direct me to?

Contact me at drocketman100@gmail.com.

Basically, I found via a personal market research project that you can get a pretty good value if you combine the value of the brand name (BV), the original quality grade (OQ) of the gun, and the current condition (CC) of the gun. This works for SXS Brit and Continental guns of 1880ish to 1960ish, 12 bore, all brands, best work grade through colonial/farmer grade (but not "extra finish"), pristine to wallhanger condition. You get a value, not a price, from which you can judge reasonability of price. Contact me if you want to discuss further.

DDA