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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 11
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 11 |
friend has a Belgium 20 ga. sidelock I've been lusting for and I believe he is going to give me a price, but I don't know what a fair price would be. I got to look at it once about six month's ago and it is definitely a best gun, fit, and finish great, hinged front trigger, the rib was very nice as I remember, ejectors, completely scroll engraved, double triggers, 5lbs 8 oz, pistol grip,nice figured wood but dull oil finish, 70 mm chambers, perfect bores, one thing I haven't seen before is the coloring on the locks as I remember had sort of a bronze hue, was this something from factory or aged. I have looked at others and it it appears to be a Francotte action but it doesn't have a makers name.Others I have looked up on internet that compare to it are in 10- 15K range is this right? It is THE finest double I've ever seen in the flesh, and I've been a double lover for over 50 years.I'm not crazy about the oil i finish but I can change that., if necessary I can restock it but the color on the sidelocks puzzle me.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,071
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,071 |
10-15K is a possibility but that all depends on the gun, originality, condition and who made it. If the gun you are looking at has no maker's name, I believe they are often referred to as a guild gun. Really should have pics.
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 11
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 11 |
It won't be that expensive , I don't have posession of the gun The condition is perfect, and it seems original, in every way, I just want to be prepared when he settles on price.
Last edited by gunscrew; 03/06/14 12:56 AM.
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071 Likes: 72
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071 Likes: 72 |
Not enough data to make a judgement as the price point between a best quality gun and a best quality gun with a name maker is great, further your description lacks some detail
Some quick oberservations:
The bronzed lock parts are probably gold plated (common on high end Belgian guns)
Engraving- is it 100% covereage of close to 100% (big difference) is the scroll smal and tight or wide and expansive - (think in terms of Dots per square inch, the more small tight detail the harder to do, the more valuable)
What is the name of the maker?
If no name what are the maker's proof marks
Year of manufacture proof marks
Could be as low as $3k to or $25k need more info
What style of SLE (H&H most common)
What style of Ejectors (Southgate most common)
What style of forend release (curtis pushrod more common)
Condition matters a great deal- more info needed in particular on the barrels in terms of finish wear and thickness
Lastly on the question of the oil finish - you may be able with some elbow grease and work bring back a good finish yourself
Note while you say Francotte action you need to better define as they made several types.
Last edited by old colonel; 03/06/14 05:38 AM.
Michael Dittamo
Topeka, KS
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
Get pictures and post them here. Especially of all the proof marks. There is most likely a makers trade mark on the gun.
Pete
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,574 Likes: 167
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,574 Likes: 167 |
No makers name devalues the gun considerably in terms of price. Doesn't necessarily devalue it in terms of how good a gun it is ("gun for the money"), but the no name part factors in heavily when it comes to price.
The vast majority of Francottes were not sidelocks, but rather high quality sideplated boxlocks. And it should say "Francotte" somewhere on the gun. If not, one of the proofmarks would have to be the Francotte proprietary AF under a crown. Otherwise it's not a Francotte.
Something like the gun you describe, if it carried maybe the Lebeau-Courally name, or one of the other top notch Belgian makers, could easily be worth $10-15K. Maybe more. No name, even if it's the same quality, it won't be worth half that.
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 11
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 11 |
when I get to see the gun again I'll ad more info but there isn't a makers name on it, but it is a side lock not a boxlock with side plates as has the cocking indicator on the larger pin that hammer is on.The engraving is very small and tight the only thing that bothers me is the color a sort of bronze hue not real bold, subtle but noticeable thanks for the replies.
Last edited by gunscrew; 03/06/14 02:10 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071 Likes: 72
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071 Likes: 72 |
Where exactly is it bronze colored on the exterior of the receiver?
Michael Dittamo
Topeka, KS
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 11
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 11 |
As I recall it was on the lock plates. Thanks
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071 Likes: 72
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071 Likes: 72 |
When you look at it look hard as it may not be bronzing, it may be the discolouration of varnish applied to the locks. I have seen varnish do that before.
I have several higher grade Belgian guns which have gold plated components within the lock works. The gun you describe sounds very interesting.
I look forward to seeing pictures of the gun and the proofmarks.
Michael Dittamo
Topeka, KS
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