doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Manufrance Ideal 4R

Hi folks, I am researching a 4R that's coming up for auction and was hoping I could get a little help. Here is a photo of the markings. The auctioneer knows nothing about it. I was hoping to identify gauge?



Also, it's an older model due to the spectacle style trigger guard and appears to be in fair condition. There is a rotting orange buttpad to be dealt with, and initials have been inlaid in gold (or fake gold) in the stock. There are no case colors or very little remaining, but the finish on the bbls look good and original.

Any idea on ballpark values?

Thanks,
Shane

Another photo, although the rest of the photos are pretty poor.



Shane

Any way to get a better picture of the forward end of the barrel flats and the start of the stubs of the barrels??
Will a 10 gauge hull enter the chambers?

Mike

http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=350490

http://www.gournetusa.com/Ideal.htm

By what looks like 8.4 on the barrel, I'll take a wild guess that it's a 12 gauge (18.6 mm). Can you get a photo of the area in front of the barrel flats?

18.4 MM is 0.724409 which is 12 gauge.

That isn't all that wild a guess!

I'd bet on 12 gauge also. The 18.4 would have been what it measured when it was new, measuring the bore today at a point 9" from the breech will give you a clue as to what kind of mischief has taken place in the century or so since it was proofed.

PS powder was in use prior to 1900, when PT powder came along, but, was used for a few years after 1900, alongside PT.


Best,
Ted

Thanks gents, unfortunately there aren't any other decent photos available. No photos of the sides of the receiver or details of the wood. It's a farm auction and this is the one gem in the place. Now I have to decide if I should make the trip or pass.

Understanding that condition is everything..... any thoughts at all as to value I can evaluate the gun for tightness etc, but not until the sale. if the bbls and wood are sound and it locks up tight, we see there isn't much finish left on the wood, and of course there is the rubber butt pad.... ballpark?

Depends on how bad you want one, if not too buggered up and barrels sound 500-700 bucks would be my range.

Watch for wood damage around the action

Broken or missing safety

Pitted barrels

Missing or damaged strap and retracting hardware

Hunting with lunette trigger guards can be problematic, depending on weather conditions. Beyond that, it's all condition, IMHO. Postoak raises some good issues to look for. If you really want to get prepared, follow skeettx's link to the gournet forums and read all you want about Ideals. Great guns. Spend an hour there and you'll know what to do at the auction.

I should have said go to the darneusa forums. The link from skeettx's is good but there is lots more there.

Thanks Gentlemen! Appreciate the information and the help.

Thanks!
Shane