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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 139 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 139 Likes: 2 |
A friend has a 16 ga. Pieper Arms sxs Hammer gun for sale. It has Modified Diana stamped on the right barrel and Laminated Steel on the left barrel. Number 062xx on the frame and barrels. Also number 143 on barrels and frame. There is a diamond with 16 over a "C" on both barrels that my friend said means it has been proofed with cordite smokeless powder.
It appears to be in good condition with no pitting in the bores. Tight lock up and the barrels ring like church barrels. Some dings on the wood but no cracks. Checkering is sharp and there is a still a little color on the side plates. He is asking $600.
1. Any idea when it might have been made?
2. Would it be safe to shoot with 2-1/2" "low pressure" shells?
3 Any idea what it might be worth (sorry, but I don't have any photos)
Last edited by BarkeyVA; 08/18/14 10:21 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,528 Likes: 354
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,528 Likes: 354 |
The 16 in a diamond is a pre-1924 mark simply meaning 16g. There are other marks on the action and barrel flats that provide more information. Smokeless proof is indicated by a stylized Lion over PV stamp. This might help http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=295608 The barrels are no doubt Twist, and no one on the internet can tell you if they are safe to use, with any load.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,071
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,071 |
As already mentioned, safety can't be guaranteed without first hand inspection of the gun. No pitting in the bores of a gun that age could be a red flag in itself. It has two possible meanings, one being that it has been well looked after through the years or two, the bores have been honed out. Hopefully it is the first but measurements of the bores and barrel wall thickness will provide some answers.
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 139 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 139 Likes: 2 |
Thanks, everyone. I appreciate the information.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
There should be a marking on each barrel showing bore size in mm's at time of proof. "Nominal" 16 ga size (.662") would be 16.8 & may use a comma rather than decimal point. 16.8/25.4 gives .661" while 16.9/25.4 gives .665". You can compare the marking with current bore size to determine the extent, if any, of which it may have been honed.
As Drew mentioned the C has no reference at all to "Cordite", in fact it is very doubtful if cordite was ever used in a shotgun, it being primarily a Rifle propellant. Barrels of this era were marked for both bore size & Chamber "C" size. You may find guns with a 16 chamber having bore sizes from 15 to 17 or more.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 139 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 139 Likes: 2 |
The gun is among 40 or 50 other guns, including several drillings, from a collector's estate that my friend is selling for the family. This gun was probably stored in a safe for many years, but no idea what might have been done to it.
I'll definitely look for the lion over PV mark. Also read that the lion over SCH and EC are also a smokeless powder proof mark.
Still curious how much this gun might be worth.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 268
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 268 |
I used to work in a gunshop: A fellow I learned a lot from would say to customers: "I've got a '57 chevy....what's it worth?"
Of course, what he meant was, that without seeing the gun, or pictures, it is just impossible to estimate the value.
Sam Ogle, Lincoln, NE
Sam Ogle
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 139 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 139 Likes: 2 |
Again, it appears to be in good condition with no pitting in the bores. Tight lock up and the barrels ring like church barrels. Some dings on the wood but no cracks. Checkering is sharp. Good finish and no rust on the barrels and there is a still a little color on the side plates.
I realize value is in the eyes of the beholder and is dictated by what a buyer wants to pay and the seller is willing to accept.
So, that said, what would one expect to pay for an early 1900's 16 ga. Pieper sxs hammer gun with laminated steel barrels in good condition?
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 286 Likes: 6
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 286 Likes: 6 |
$500-$600 +/- is about all these old hammer guns go for. The public looks at the laminated steel and hammers and runs screaming into the weeds.
W. E. Boyd
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,528 Likes: 354
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,528 Likes: 354 |
The 'Modified Diana' Pieper was sold for many years by the major retailers. Montgomery Ward 1895 catalog  Sears, Roebuck & Co. 1907 catalog  Interesting that the 1907 catalog, which offered lots of pattern welded and faux Damascus barreled guns had this notice: "Every gun we offer for sale...is made to stand any proper load of nitro or black powder..."  So much for the "Damascus barrels were only intended to be shot with black powder" myth 
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