doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com John Dubiel Rifle?

Gentlemen:

I would certainly welcome your opinions and critique on the following rifle that just ended on Gunbroker.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=482720078

The sellers description is as follows:

"This is a really rare HOFFMAN ARMS 30/60 Express rifle authenticated by the late Michael Petrov. Michael said it was made in 1926 or 1927 thus being unmarked by Hoffman. Stated that the fine metal work being done by James Howe when he left G&H to work for Hoffman and the stock by John Dubele. The barrel has 3 folding leaf sights and a full length ramped rib. Bore and chamber are good. A Lyman 48 long slide rear sight and a very rare Griffin & Howe SINGLE LEVER scope mount that needs a little fitting to go on the mount. The original was lost in time and this replacement is really close to a fit."

My description begins:

The serial number is 1271992, so it dates from about April or May 1926. The rifle fits into a batch of National Match rifles (SRS lists 15 NM rifles from 1271970 to 1271998, including 990 and 994). The bolt has the distinctive NM and Sporter polishing patterns, and the serial number electropenciled on it.. The rifle is completely unmarked as to maker, and only has the added numbers 30.06 on the left side of the chamber, and 6. on the top of the single lever G&H base. The barrel and chamber area certainly looks like a Hoffman, as does the front sight hood release button. The barrel has 6 groove rifling, a full rib that almost appears to be machined integrally with the barrel, and a 3 leaf express sight numbered 100 200 300. The G&H single lever mount is marked GRIFFIN & HOWE, INC. N.Y. PAT. APPL. FOR, and fits like a glove after I tapped one small nick back into place. The front edge of the magazine cut off is rounded to give a little extra clearance to the windage knob of the Lyman 48 rear sight. The stock work and checkering patterns are very similar to Hoffman #257 that John Mead had for sale a while back.

While taking everything the seller posted with a grain of salt, I do believe he had corresponded with Michael about this rifle maybe 15 or more years ago. Either he misunderstood Michael, OR Michael learned much more as the years progressed, while the seller retained some erroneous information. I know James V. Howe stayed in Cleveland when Hoffman moved to Ardmore in June of 1925, almost a year before this rifle was made, so obviously he didn't work on this rifle!

To me this rifle is very "Hoffmanesque" in it's appearance, but not quite Hoffman. I am leaning towards John Dubiel. I would certainly invite your thoughts and comments.

Thanks in advance!

Relic,
I have been going over every page of Jas.Howes Modern Gunsmithing in search of clues for an 03 that I believe he may have made. The one thing that really stands out about your rifle is the trap grip cap made from the buttplate of an 03 or Krag. It is explained by Howe in detail of Vol.2. Just a thought.
I would vote Dubiel as the stockmaker,but whoever did the metal sure knew what they were doing. Really nice rifle,did you get it, can we see more pics?!!!!!!

Newton,
Any chance you could share the chapter or page numbers in Vol 2?
Thanks in advance

You are right and he has the stockmakers name wrong as it's John DuBiel.
Jim

LRf
page 258 vol.2
Did anyone here get that rifle, If I would have seen the listing I would have been all over that "Buy Now" button. Dan.

Thank you!

Gentlemen:

Yes, I purchased the above rifle on Gunbroker. It "languished" there for 3 or 4 weeks, the seller started off with a reserve that was considerably higher, then gradually lowered it each time the auction renewed. There was always a bidder or two, but they never met his reserve. When I could no longer stand it, I called the seller, and met his reserve as the auction ended, while I was on the phone with him.

I would love to do some more photos, but I would have to wait until someone more computer savvy than I am (like any 10 year old kid) helps me. At this time, all I have are the Gunbroker photos, and I did save them!

I graced the G&H single lever mount, which fits perfectly, with a period Noske scope from Michael's estate, it looks good, and appropriate! I intended to install a Zielklein, but apparently I don't have an extra at the moment.

The rifle is stunning, the metal work appears impeccable, the full length rib appears to be machined integrally with the barrel, which, if that is the case, is no small feat. I will have Aaron Little look at the rib the next time I see him, and get his opinion about it and it's installation.

Newton 1311:

I was also thinking the trap door in the grip cap was an 03 trapdoor, but an 03 trapdoor measures right at 1" in diameter, this cap is .890". It is, however, made almost exactly the same as an 03 trapdoor. The entire grip cap differs from the Howe grip cap made from an 03 butt plate, this cap is .255 thick, the 03 grip cap would be approximately .100" thick. Mine has one screw hole in the front, and two blind pin holes in the rear. Howe's has 3 screw holes. In addition to the differences, it is marked GERMANY on the underside, so it appears factory made. The hole under the grip cap trap door perfectly fits the Lyman 48 aperture when a scope is mounted.

James:

I have always seen John Dubiel spelled Dubiel, not DuBiel.

I am still thinking Dubiel on the metal work. The quarter rib has "lightning" cuts, and quite a few of the Dubiels I have looked at have this feature. John Mead has a Dubiel on his website right now with very similar lightning cuts, AND a seemingly identical front sight hood release button.
Michael posted a Dubiel on Accurate Reloading with an identical grip cap, although his was engraved. Michael also shows an unmarked Dubiel 03 Springfield on page 99, Volume 2. While I am no authority (obviously) I am not aware of any unmarked later Hoffmans...................

I will attempt to post some links to these other rifles after this post.

Oh, I did send an email to Monte, and hopefully, I will get a reply, with his opinion.

Thanks for your thoughts and help.

The grip cap, see Michael's post, a little over half way down:

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9411043/m/6201046111?r=5991007111#5991007111

The best I can do for John Mead's Dubiel. You will have to find the rifle, and look at each photo to see the lightning cuts on the quarter rib, and the front sight hood. Maybe someone can find them and post?

https://deadratranch.com/RIFLES.php

Lots of good gun porn there anyway........................