doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Darne's age

Can someone date this License Darne for me please. It's a 12 SS Halifax No 3 s/n 41521

You haven't given us much to go on (a photo of the barrel flats and the gun itself would tell so much more) but, graded Halifax guns were pretty much a product of the 1920-1930s.

Best,
Ted

Hi Ted, you answered me as below back in 2014 but since then I'd seen one in a museum that was 1898 vintage, so I was wondering if the s/n was actually traceable to the 1930's as you suggested, or could it be an earlier model.
Tim
PS I have other photos but can't figure out how to post them
T

#360466 - 03/10/14 10:03 AM Re: Darne license [Re: Hasbin]
Ted Schefelbein Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 01/02/02
Posts: 5042
Loc: mpls, mn.
A Halifax was built by Darne. At the time this gun was built, there were so many other manufacturers building copies of sliding breech guns that they put that stamp on the Halifax to assure customers it was an actual Darne product, as opposed to a copy.
Originally, the gun had 65mm chambers, about 2 1/2". It was proofed in St. Etienne for smokeless powder T, and the gun was proofed in a finished state. It is a 12 gauge. At one time there were grade 3, 4 and 5 Halifax guns, mid 1930s, and that is about when this gun was produced. It appears to be single proofed, most lower grades were.
A few more pictures wouldn't hurt a thing.

Best,
Ted

The earliest Darne catalog in my possession is 1909, and there are no Halifax version guns listed. Unless it was the NRA museum, or the museum in Leige, I'd be suspicious of a date of production of a Darne a museum was displaying, based on serial numbers. Halifax Darnes were the field implement of the Darne sliding breech design, with production that ebbed and flowed with the condition of the European economy. If there was an attempt to keep historical records as to production of Halifax guns at the Darne company, I'm not aware of it. Serial numbers are not that useful for dating Darne guns. I can go by when the guns showed up in the catalog, and that is about it.
Did you post a picture of the gun at one time? It seems I noted proof with French smokeless powder T, which puts production at year 1900 or later, since the proofhouse started using powder T in 1900. I would have needed a picture or description to get you that.
If you email pictures to me, I can post them for you. Click on my name in the post to get to my profile, and, email address.


Best,
Ted

Thanks for the info on Darne Halifax's powder proofing you posted as an aid to dating the gun. The one I saw in a London UK museum was a double gun with a sliding breech and it had lots of filigree on it but otherwise it looked a lot like mine and it had a date of late 1890's on it's display-case nameplate. that's why I ask the question. Here are the photos, I have. Since they were taken I have cleaned up the gun quite a lot and have repaired the horn buttplate. I am taking it to a gunsmith later this week to get a worn pin in the breech release handle changed but I don't think I'll ask for any other work. Let me know if you see something that should be done, please. (I don't want the cost of smithy work to get away from me unless it's absolutely necessary)

The barrel flats on Tim's gun:




View of the breech:


I don't see anything on your gun that would change my opinion of its vintage. I would make sure your gunsmith is familiar with the design (warning-most gunsmiths are not) and have the work done that he advises.
If you are unsure, Kirk Merrington can work on it. So can J.J. at Champlain. Geoffroy Gournet can, too. Those are the three I would use.

Good Luck.

Best,
Ted

Ted, I defer to your estimate of the Darne's age and it is confirmed by the Armurier at Darne itself in Ste Etienne, France.
Their message of yesterday is copied below
____________
Bonjour monsieur
Votre fusil a ete fabriqu� entre 1920 et 1935
Cordialement
H Bruchet
_____________

Thanks and best regards,
Tim

Wow, actual validation. Sweet. You would think I imported them for 15 years and went to France and hung out at the factory and the library in Lyon or something.

You are welcome, by the way.

Any of you guys that study barrel marks know the origin of the letter B on the lump? I've seen it many times, but, don't know how it figures to Darne guns, per say.

Thanks in advance,

Best,
Ted

I've only seen it on Halifax guns. So maybe...and this is strictly an uneducated guess....maybe it denotes that the barrels have been brazed?

Dustin,
Good as anything, I guess. I have seen it on other guns besides Darnes. Never paid attention to how the barrels were fashoned, however.

Best,
Ted