doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com United Arms Factories Liege Canadian Belle

I've been on the lookout for a damascus shooter for a couple of years now, and today I ran across this Canadian Belle hammer double 12 gauge with 29-1/2" barrels, cheap enough to take a chance on at least. I've been able to determine that these guns were made between 1905-1914. Not at all a high quality gun; there are tool marks everywhere that is not visible when the gun is closed and even a couple on the exterior.

That being said it's in good condition, locks up tight and everything works as it should. The bore is bright, but not suspiciously so and there is a bit of pitting in near the muzzle. There seems to be plenty of meat in the chambers and barrels, but I will measure the wall thicknesses carefully before firing it. It seems to be chambered for 2-3/4 inch.

I'm not sure that I trust my reading of the proofs (my eyesight ain't what it used to be) and I'm having trouble finding information about these guns. Any information that you can provide would be helpful.

It dates to 1893-1897 and without NON POUR BALLE it should have no choke. It does NOT carry smokeless proof.
I see no maker's mark; anything on the action flats?

Thank you! The only marking on the exterior is 'United Arms Factories Liege' located just below and in front of the hammers, and 'Canadian Belle' marked on the top rib just ahead of the chambers.

Oh, and it turns out that almost all the 'pitting' near the muzzle was dust that vanished when I ran a patch through it.

Here you go
Fabriques d�Armes Unies de Li�ge
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/art...0liege%20gb.htm

Thanks- I thought those markings must be an anglicization of FAUL, but wasn't certain.

It is marked 18.2, which comes to .716 inches, corresponding to a modified choke. I measured the muzzles this morning with a dial caliper and they are both .713 inch.

The controllers at the Banc D'Epreuves Des Armes a Feu De Liege seemed to enjoy messing with gun for U.S. export

The usual c. 1900 Belgian 12 gauge bore would be 18.4 mm = .724"
Conversion table: 1 millimeter = 0.039 inches
http://www.convertunits.com/from/mm/to/inches

MARKINGS
1878 - 1897 - NON POUR BALLE = choked (at least .2 mm = .008") unrifled bores.
1898 - 1910 � Bore in mm (22 cm from breech) and muzzle (choke constriction) appear next to each other after �choke�
1910 � 1924 � Bore in mm is over muzzle dimension

For instance: a 12g barrel with 18.3 & 17.8 has a .720" bore & a choke constriction of .700 or .020� (Modified).
If marked only with one number & the word �Choke�, then it indicates bore size only and has at least .2mm (.008") of choke.

They do seem somewhat whimsical in their application of marks...

I have heard it said that cheaper guns have heavy, drainpipe like barrels, where as expensive finely made guns have thinner barrels. So ironically the older cheap guns are safer 100 years on. Anyone have an opinion on that theory ?