doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Sauer(?) Sidelock information please

Gentlemen,
Please jump in here and enlighten me on exactly what I have.....
Advertised as a Sauer Sidelock from 1934, it is a 12 gauge with 30" barrels, weighs 6 1/2 lb. typical German full & full chokes, low rib, a second bead that is 10 1/2" back of the front bead,(is this original?), extractors,and a nice stick of wood. On the barrels, it says "Sauer Patent" and a series of numbers. No chamber length markings; is it 2 1/2" or 2 3/4"? I'll let the pics of the markings tell the rest of this and any information you can provide will be gratefully appreciated. I see NO nitro proof marks;only BP proofs.

Additional photos of the Sauer Sidelock........

Must have been made for the American market as only the Protection is a U.S. of A. patent for a very expensive method of joining tubes & the Spezial 3 Ringe Gewehr Lauf Stahl is stamped Special Gun Barrel Steel, a stamp in English that I don't recall seeing prior. I would hazard a guess of mid to late 1890s as the market didn't seem to fancy the typical Clock Hand indicator Gesetz Geschutz DRGM Nr. 17913(Gebrauchsmuster 17913/DRGM Nr. 17913 - filed 9.25.1893 and issued 8.12.1896 under the term Selbstspannergewehrschlo� u.s.w.(and so forth, etc.)) so a dial was engaged. Either the chamber length was stamped on the extractor or was 65mm.



Cheers,

Raimey
rse

An inland Sauer Sidelock in the 61xxx serial number range:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post446701


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
check the proof marks....I see only black powder proofs, no nitro proof; is it safe with low pressure nitro loads, and is it 2.5" chambers?
Gary

Indeed, they did not spend the extra Marks for the Nitro test as the end use client was not bound by proof rules. Probably 65mm chambers but may be 2 5/8".

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Is it just my eyes or did someone attempt to disfigure all the Sauer Wildmann w/ a staff stamps in a effort to disguise the maker? Odd they all seem to have some odd mark across them.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I have a Sauer Sidelock similar to this. Mine was made for the American market & was sold through von Lengerke & Detmold, New York & is so marked atop the right barrel. On the left barrel is "the Knock-About gun". Sn is 87,934 which puts it around 1900 per the chart. Left lock plate is marked von Lengerke & Detmold / US agents New York while right plate is marked J P Sauer & Son / Maker & Patentee. The scroll pattern is smaller on my gun & this is a heavier gun @ about 7� lbs. Barrels are an even 30" indicating their American destination, generally speaking those made for the European market will be in metric lengths. It has a hole at 8" from the breech where a rear sight has been but is now missing. This gun had a leather covered pad as a cheek piece. The leather is torn & beneath it in the hollowed out stock is what appears to be cork.
It also has Krupp barrels & is chambered for 2 3/4" shells,. The face of the extractor carries a 70 mark. Barrels were assembled on the "Shoe Lump" method. It likewise does not carry smokeless powder proof.
My understanding on this is that smokeless proof became mandatory in Germany in 1912. Prior to this most makers did not submit their guns for the optional Nitro Proof. The problem was that German proof laws were applied the same way for Nitro as they were for black. That is if the proof load was a double charge of black a double charge of smokeless had to be used. Over loads of Nitro run pressures up way out of proportion to what they will with black so most makers would not submit them. Those who did usually specified the gun was built for a very light load so the proof would not be apt to damage it. The proof charges were re-written for 1912 to reflect desired pressures & Nitro-Proof became compulsory.

Kilby did make a tubeset of Krupp Spezial 3 Ringe Gewehr Lauf on a Matska that reads Krupp 3 Ring Gun Barrel Steel.



http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=152508&page=7

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

on the barrels (underside) below the serial no. is the marking 190M ..... what does this mean? I'm really picking you boy's brains tonight.
And, will RST or Polywad Vintager be good to shoot in this gun?