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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,897 Likes: 110
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,897 Likes: 110 |
The terms "low brass", "high brass", "low base" and "high base" have absolutely nothing to do with pressures. "High brass" and "low brass" had to do with the quality of the cartridge case back in the days of paper cases and fiber base wads and today is really mostly a marketing thing. "High base" and "low base" really have no meaning today. Those terms dealt with the height of the base wad in whether the cartridge case was made for loading with bulk smokeless powders or dense smokeless powders. The "high brass" shells were Western's RECORD, Winchester's LEADER, Rem-UMC's ARROW, etc. The "low brass" shells were Western's FIELD, Winchester's REPEATER, Rem-UMC's NITRO CLUB, etc. All of these cases were made with a "low base" for loading with bulk smokeless powders or a "high base" for loading with dense smokeless powders.
Virtually all of the promotional loads sold by the big chain stores are loaded with the smallest amount of the fastest burning powder they can use and stay within SAAMI specs, meaning the pressures are right up there at the max.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 318 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 318 Likes: 4 |
Another option is the B&P Comp 1. Their 7/8 oz. load is under 6000 psi and the 1 oz under 6500. They're tough to find in a retail store now, but they're readily available online. I don't know that I've ever shot a lower recoil factory shell.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
That's fine for double guns, which is the main thrust of the discussions here, but I just bought a 1912 20 gauge mfg. in 1916- 2&1/2" chambers, 25: mod. choke solid rib and the only one of my 11 Model 12's with a straight hand buttstock- so far anyways. So, will test fire it with some factory new AA skeet loads and see- my guess it, they will hang up at the front radius of the ejection port- so, if that is the case, I'll order 2&1/2" 20 target loads from RST. I would vote for Billary before I would alter any of my Winchesters--gospel truth lads. RWTF
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16
Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16 |
I always use 2 3/4" hulls in my short chambered guns. And after literally tens of thousands of rounds I can report I still have all my fingers. All scientifically controlled tests I have seen regarding this issue concluded no significant increase in chamber pressure using the longer hull. If you're interested, call the Double Gun Journal and ask for a copy of the issue containing Sherman Bell's report on using long hulls in short chambers.
It is chamber pressure that is important, not hull length. If short and long hulls give about the same chamber pressure in a short chamber then I consider both to be safe to shoot. It's interesting to note that long after 2 3/4" ammunition became standard most American gun manufacturers continued to cut their chambers 2 5/8" but recommended using the longer 2 3/4" hull.
+1, Joe is right on the money with this one. The catch is, you almost have to reload, I've not seen any data on commercial 2 3/4" ammo that is low pressure. The only one is RST 2 3/4" which they told me is around 7500psi IIRC (you can call them to get the exact pressure). My reloads are 5900psi and have worked just fine in my 2 1/2" guns and they kill birds just fine. In fact I had my J. Harkom hammergun (circa 1890) out yesterday  I also use these reloads in my Nitro Proofed Damascus guns, no problems there either. Good Luck! Greg Greg, Beautiful Harkom! 5,900 psi is LOW. I'm assuming that's a 12ga? The RST 16ga. 2 1/2", 1 oz "Lite" loads are 7,000 psi at 1,200 fps. Matt
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,964 Likes: 89
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,964 Likes: 89 |
fla3006, I believe SAMMI maximum pressure for a 12 gauge is about 11,500 psi. That is way above what the service pressure most short chambered guns were designed for. And just about all American ammo is loaded towards that max. Not because it gives superior performance, it doesn't, but because high chamber pressures are needed to operate most automatics. Virtually identical downrange performance can easily be accomplished with 7,000 psi or thereabouts. That's well within the normal 3 tonne proof most British guns have.
When an old man dies a library burns to the ground. (Old African proverb)
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 70
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 70 |
So which factory ammo would you recommend for late 1800s Parker damascus 2.5" 12 ga?
Last edited by fla3006; 10/16/16 12:20 PM.
Hunt with vintage classics.
The right of the people to keep & bear arms shall not be infringed.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,964 Likes: 89
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,964 Likes: 89 |
The Parker is not chambered 2 1/2" but rather 2 5/8". If you're not going to reload I suggest RST or some of the ammunition other posters have recommended above. Good stuff.
When an old man dies a library burns to the ground. (Old African proverb)
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 70
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 70 |
Thanks Joe & others, guess I will try RST or B&P
Hunt with vintage classics.
The right of the people to keep & bear arms shall not be infringed.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 112
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 112 |
Low pressure loads are a lot better for the wood on older shotguns
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,223 Likes: 123
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,223 Likes: 123 |
Low pressure loads are a lot better for the wood on older shotguns Hi, sorry, but pressure has no effect the wood. What does is velocity and the weight of the shot. Best, Greg
Gregory J. Westberg
MSG, USA
Ret
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