doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com W&J Davis info

I was wondering if anyone has information on W&J Davis, Birmingham gun Makers. All I kind find when I did a search was that they claimed establishment in 1876. Could they have made guns before that date? I am asking because of a particular gun I have. While it is not one of their double barrels, it is a 13 gauge single barrel muzzleloader. For proof marks, all there are are the crossed scepters with the crown and BCP letters and another set of crossed scepters with the "V" at the bottom. In between the two is the gauge stamping which is 13. If I deciphered the marks correctly, it should be around 1855 or before. This doesn't jive with the claimed establishment date of 1876. So I was wondering if anyone has more accurate information on this maker or did I decipher the date of the proofs incorrectly? Or was there another W J Davis?

Sounds like you need to find one of those books on the Birmingham makers, unless someone here will dig in theirs for you. Recall there were about a bazillion Birmingham makers. Good luck.

I'm afraid W&J Davis appear to be an economy gun retailer. You almost certainly have one of their guns as described in the info below. The proof mark of 13 is not the indication of a'13 bore' as such.

This is what IGC has on them:

Name W & J Davis
Address1 Unknown address?
Address2 31 Newton Road, Stratford Road
City/Town Birmingham
Country United Kingdom
Trade Gunmakers
Dates 1876-1928?

Notes

W & J Davis claimed establishment in 1876. They were recorded in about 1900 at 31 Newton Road, Stratford Road, Birmingham.
The firm's catalogue dated to 1901 reveals that by that time they supplied the public direct with claims of the least expensive guns and best value for money. Most barrels were twist or Damascus, only one or two models were available with steel barrels. No calibres were stated for their rook and rabbit rifles, no mention was made of .22 calibre. They supplied muzzle loading guns as well as boxlocks, but most of the models available were hammer guns with very few sidelocks. The catalogue suggests they bought guns from the trade as cheaply as possible. The firm appears to have closed in about 1928.

Tim

Thanks Tim for the information.

Regarding the proof marks. By 1876, should there not have been more marks than the crossed sceptres and the number 13 that I described in my above post? There is no fancy intersecting BP below a crown or a muzzle diameter number or a not for ball etc. which indicated to me it is from 1855 or before. Or did black powder muzzleloaders not require all the proofs that a breech loader would?

I would have to look up to see what marks applied to breech loaders, if any, which did not apply to muzzleloaders. Also a single barrel may be different from a double. It is noted however the vast majority of muzzleloaders were cylinder bored. For the muzzleloaders it was I believe normal to measure the bore at the muzzle end. The "Not For Ball" mark was not applied to a cylinder bored gun. With the 13 mark the bore (At the muzzle) could have measured anywhere from just accepting a .710" plug gage to just not accepting a . 729" one. Prior to 1887, as I recall the date, there was no 13/1 mark. If you plan on shooting it make certain to use wads which give a good snug fit, you may well be able to use regular 12ga wads.
My I Hollis double muzzleloader is marked 12 but I have to use 11 ga wads for a good fit.

Thanks Miller. The more I think about it, the more inclined I am to believe that various proof marks didn't apply to muzzleloaders.
While I can't see any real reason this particular gun couldn't be shot, I don't know yet if I will do so. A 12 gauge wad may well be tight enough in this gun. I'll have to try one just to see.