doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Kent Bismuth 2.5in 12g shells to hot?

would these 2.5in shotgun shells be to hot for a Ithaca 1920 Flues?

http://gamebore.com/uk/cartridge/game/12G-Gamebore-Bismuth

At 1,400 ft/sec they might be getting up there but you don't know because they don't list the chamber pressure.

I would call them first.

Recent discussion about the new 2 3/4" loads, and a link to a previous discussion here
http://members.boardhost.com/lcsmith/msg/1491081984.html

1 1/8 oz. at 1200, (3 Dram) in a 7.5 pound shotgun = 23.0 ft/lbs of free recoil
1 1/4 oz. 3 1/4 Dr. Eq. (1220 fps) in an 8# gun = 25 ft/lbs
1 1/16 oz. Kent at 1400 fps in a 7.5# gun = 25.7 ft/lbs

I wouldn't unless the head of the stock was glasbedded or cyanoacrylate impregnated

This mania for hyper fast loads is getting out if hand. Lead loads, I used in my youth, would have been from 1150-1250 and we're extremely effective. Steel at long range has such a bad reputation that everyone thinks all you need to do is drive it faster but past 30 yards it has lost so much velocity that the difference between a 1200 and 1500fps load is marginal. You get five to ten yards more effective range at most, which you could do almost as well just by increasing to larger shot size. You can't pass shoot, or sky bust as some do with steel. It does kick more, stress parts and shooter more but for what I see as marginal gains.

I was looking at low pressure lead load for a 20 and noted Longshot could produce 7k 7/8 ounce loads at 1350. Too fast for my use because of the recoil that would damage old wood. So I tried to reduce the load down to about 1200 fps but when I tested them the velocity went from 1135-1275, which was not a consistent load. Worse was that the loads were tested in warm weather, where velocity tends to be more consultant. In real cold I expect the spread to be greater. If the light loads had been consistent I would have sent them out for pressure testing and velocity confirmation. So I crossed Longshot off my light load, in a small bore list to keep velocity and pressure down to shoot in light doubles. It would be nice to reduce my powder inventory to less than ten different powders to load everything I need.

10,000-11,000 psi.......from the horses mouth

cj

In USA there is no guarantees your gun is safe to shoot with them. I read in Great Britain they can take old shotgun to gunsmith who determines if gun is a candidate for standard modern proof. If so it is submitted to one of the two proof houses for testing. If it passes it can be used with standard CIP game loads of appropriate shell length.
If the gun is in very good mechanical order most Americans would probably use RST non-tox loads in the antique Ithaca shotgun.

They won't always list pressures as it is not in this case all that relevant they just need to say that they are suitable for nitro proofed guns with 2 1/2" or longer chambers. I should think your Ithaca was built for much heavier pressures and unless in poor condition I cannot see a problem. I wonder if the velocity is a bit higher to compensate for the light weight of the Bismuth shot against lead. Lagopus.....

The Ithaca NID which came out in the mid 20's would be ok but the earlier Flues were built to handle lower pressure loads. I would not shoot1400fps loads in it. A decent NID or even a Nitro Special would be fine.

When I bought my 20 gauge Flues the next thing I bought was a reloading press. I would never use a recipe that was in the 10,000 to 11,000 psi range.

CJO, restoring any masterpieces lately?

This is how Winchester protects their butt as to pressure.



The load above is very close if not the same as the load on the Hodgdon site.

Manufacturer Powder Primer Wad Grs. Pressure Vel. (ft/s) Velocity:

Winchester WAALite Win. 209 WAA12SL 12.0 5,600 PSI 980