October
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Who's Online Now
5 members (Carcano, earlyriser, 3 invisible), 520 guests, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics39,489
Posts561,994
Members14,584
Most Online9,918
Jul 28th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 159
Sidelock
OP Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 159
I'm wondering what informed and experienced folks would use as a maximum service load in the event of having a gun reproofed for black powder only.
Any informed thoughts on the subject?
Jeremy

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758
Likes: 460
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758
Likes: 460
British 1896 Rules of Proof
Black and Nitro powder Service and Proof Charge Pressures
https://books.google.com/books?id=inQCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA296&dq
Under the existing Regulations of Proof in England, a “service charge” is specified for every bore, and the compulsory definitive proof is made with double the service charge of proof-house powder and 1 1/3 (times) the service charge of No. 6 shot. Besides the compulsory proof, a supplementary proof with other kinds of powder is permitted, if applied for. Many other charges, both larger and smaller than the officially stated “service charge”, are in constant use.



Note the pressures are expressed as psi by LUP and one must add 10 - 14% for psi by modern piezo transducer

Curtis & Harvey “T.S.” (Treble Strong) No. 6 (84 grain = 3 Dr. Eq.) was coarse Black Powder somewhat similar (but not equivalent) to Fg.
“T.S.” was developed in 1871 for the .577/450 Boxer-Henry cartridge used in the Martini-Henry rifle. It was a precursor to “R.F.G.2” (Rifled Fine Grain 2) manufactured at the Royal Gunpowder Mills, Essex, adopted in 1873.
C&H “T.S.” No. 4 (82 gr. = 3 Dr. Eq.) medium grain similar to FFg
C&H “T.S.” No. 2 (72 gr. = 3 Dr. Eq.) fine grain similar to FFFg.

Prior to 1925 same as above
12g 2 1/2” and 2 5/8” chambers (bore .710-.740) for a maximum service load of 3 1/4 Dram Eq. with 1 1/4 oz. shot. (1220 fps)
https://books.google.com/books?id=inQCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA296&dq
Definitive Proof – 6 1/2 Drams Proof-House Black Powder with 1 2/3 oz. No. 6 shot = 10,100 psi + 10 - 14%
Supplementary Nitro Proof with 4 1/2 Drams of C&H No. 2 T.S. powder and 1 2/3 oz. shot = 16,400 psi + 10 - 14%

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 159
Sidelock
OP Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 159
Drew
Thanks. What got me thinking is that in preliminary communication with the proof house they indicated maximum service load for black powder could be specified, which surprised me and something I need to follow up on. This is very preliminary pending other information, but that had me wondering, in particular about less than standard maximum service loads.

Jeremy

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758
Likes: 460
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758
Likes: 460
Jeremy: I have no knowledge of current Proof House practices, but Bro. Larry and others surely do. Anxious to be educated.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758
Likes: 460
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758
Likes: 460
Was hoping someone smarter would help Jeremy. I assume you are planning on proof testing in the U.S.?

H.P. White Laboratory, Inc. in Maryland and Cortland, New York will proof to a pressure of 20,000 psi. A minimum pressure test would be 1 and 1/2 times the pressure of your intended load. www.hpwhite.com

Other options, and please let us know who you use and how it goes.

Chesapeake Testing
http://chesapeaketesting.com/services/outdoor-blast-testing/

Dayton T. Brown
http://www.dtbtest.com/Default.aspx

Re: Vintage 12g Black Powder Pressures
1 1/8 oz. 3 Drams (1200 fps) of DuPont FFFg (82 grains) is about 5000 psi.
1 1/8 oz. 3 Drams Curtis & Harvey’s No. 4, T.S. (82 grains; somewhat similar but not equivalent to medium grain FFg) was about 6500 psi.
1 1/4 oz. 3 1/4 Drams Curtis & Harvey’s No. 4, T.S. was about 8500 psi.

Black Powder substitute pressures from the 2001 “Lyman Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual”
1 1/8 oz. with 100 gr. GOEX FFg at 1200 fps = 4,800 psi
1 1/8 oz. with 100 gr. Pyrodex RS at 1200 fps = 5,600 psi

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 159
Sidelock
OP Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 159
Drew

Thanks for that information; very useful.

Actually, in this case I'm discussing it with the Birmingham Proof House. It is with regards to a gun recently acquired on a role of the dice as it were that is currently black powder proofed and I'm looking into the feasibility and merits of reproofing it as such versus other options. Sorry I should have provided more information up front. I'll add information if and as it become available.

What I'm starting to ponder are the merits, if any, of going below the usual 1 1/8 oz max load. That's if load truely is not fixed at a required amount as I've initially been told.
I'm waiting for more information from the other side of the pond as well; it may prove a dead end.

Jeremy


Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.226s Queries: 26 (0.181s) Memory: 0.8281 MB (Peak: 1.9017 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2025-10-04 23:34:32 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS