doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Armstrong and Co History? Re-Barreling Practice?

Just thought I'd put out an inquiry if anyone has any detailed information on Armstrong and Co a company predominantly operating out of Newcastle in the late 1800's until 1956 when they went into liquidation which finalized in 1957.

I have the usual reference material in Brown, Boothroyd and a scattering of material I've acquired over the years. Just wondering if anyone has seen one of their catalogs for example (I have a "Xerox" copy of one) or any such. I've come across advertisements indicating a possible London outlet. There was a Darlington branch, and maybe, based on a single item, a Carlisle branch. I'm fairly certain that the firm is NOT directly related to the major engineering firm of Armstrong based in Newcastle. It also seems to have bought in guns from a wider range of suppliers (BSA, Bentley and Playfair, Webley and Scott? Midland??). Just wondering what information might be out there.

On a related topic if barrels are marked "Rebarreled by XXXX" was the firm XXXX typically capable of performing the gunsmithing involved or was this like the retail goods more typically farmed out? I have come across barrels marked as such for Armstrong & Co.

Did barrel suppliers ever stamp barrels with the purchasers' name in the under barrel area or does such a stamp reliably indicate an involvement in the production? I have a set stamped (A H & Co) that were marked on the rib as rebarreled by Armstrong. No other Armstrong I've seen has that mark.
A H & Co reflects the full name of the firm: Armstrong Hawdon and Co. Two of the board of directors were named Hawdon.


Thanks
Jeremy

Hi Jeremy,

I cannot help you with any info. on Armstrong, but Arthur Howell & Co. used a similar stamp. You did not mention where that mark is on your barrels, but the Arthur Howell stamp that I am referring to is under the right barrel, up near the bottom rib, close to the forward end of the flats, and the mark is styled something like this, with the small "o" underlined.

A.H&Co

I have seen boxlocks that are marked on both the bar and rib with the names C & A Weston, W. Hodgson, Thomas Bland, Henry Monk and Arthur Howell, all with that A.H&Co mark under the barrels, and I understood that those guns were all made by Arthur Howell & Co.

All of those guns were originally proof marked between 1933 and 1939, BTW.

IGC lusting for Armstrong:

Name Armstrong & Co
Other Names
Address1 10 Neville Street
Address2 5 Collingwood Street
Address3 115 & 117 Northumberland Street
Address4 115 Northumberland Street
City/Town Newcastle-upon-Tyne
County Northumberland
Country United Kingdom
Trade Gun & rifle manufacturers
Dates 1890-1918

Notes

Armstrong & Co were established in about 1890 at 10 Neville Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. In about 1890 they moved to 5 Collingwood Street, and in about 1900 to 115 & 117 Northumberland Street. It is not known who established this firm. Armstrong is a common name in the north-east of England but no trace of an Armstrong gun maker has been found. For what it may be worth and just in case Sir W G Armstrong of armaments and ship building fame was involved, on 15 April 1905 E H Clive and Sir W G Armstrong Whitworth & Co, registered patent No. 8079 for an improved machine gun mechanism.

From about 1905 the firm occupied 115 Northumberland Street only; they appear to have closed in about 1918 but may have traded for a few years longer. The firm described themselves as gun, rifle and breech-loader manufacturers with an appointment to the Prince of Wales. From about the turn of the century if not earlier, they sold fishing tackle and other sporting goods but had a large "Sporting Gun Depot".

Internet Gun Club has some details of serial numbers which we have not published. Please send details of your gun and its serial number by email to archives@internetgunclub.com and we will reply with what information we have.

This is for a London firm of Armstrong and the only recorded:

Name Armstrong & Co
Address1 5 Newman Street, Oxford Street
City/Town London
Country United Kingdom
Trade Gunmakers
Dates 1850?-1897

Notes

Certainly connected with the Port Elizabeth, South Africa, firm of G Armstrong (later W G Armstrong) which traded from c.1869 to 1899.

That's all I can give you for the present, sorry.

Tim

Steve Barnett had an Armstrong at the Southern. SLE 32" barrels and high stock, flat rib with beautiful engraving. Tight chokes. Advertised as a pigeon gun.

Redoak
That is very interesting information; I shall have to check the details when I next get a chance.
I don't recall the underlining of the small o. However, in view of your post, I am much more inclined to think that what I have is in fact a A Howell & Co stamped set of barrels. I've long been suspicious that Armstrong & Co had any real in house gunsmithing capability. They seem to have been much more of a Sporting Goods store putting their name on a wide range of items including golf clubs and tennis rackets. I even have Maling pottery items from them which I find very odd. Perhaps they were retailed as picnic items??

thanks
Jeremy

Tim,

Thanks for the information. I've not come across the London address before but had heard of a London Armstrong & Co and seen advertisements for steel boats in the London Illustrated News. I suspect the London address was a branch. Armstrong had a branch in Darlington as well, and possibly, although this is guesswork, in Carlisle.

I'd be very interested in any "proof" of the South African connection. I've heard it before but find it very dubious myself. The name is so common and the timeline doesn't seem to overlap cleanly. FYI the South African Armstrong's work is illustrated in Cape Gunsmiths.

As to when they closed the end came in 1956. 1957 if you want to be technical. Liquidation started in '56 and the process wrapped up in '57. I have a copy of the newspaper announcement somewhere. I also have a Slazenger tennis racket sold by them in the late '30s

As to who founded them the board of directors of the firm had two Hawdons' (I'd have to double check initials but I think they were W. D. Hawdon and J. T. Hawdon. There was also an A. V. R. Pickerring (yes two r's ) Interestingly there are geneaological records for the time indicating a W. Hawdon married a woman who's maiden name was Armstrong. I'm trying to track down more information; it may be a blind alley but it is suggestive that the Armstrong name came via a maiden name (family funding?? wife involved in the firm ... unusual but not unheard of). The Hawdon's show up in engineering pubulications of the time where they appear to be associated with trivial inventions.

Jeremy

This is the listing for G Armstrong in SA:

Name G Armstrong
Other Names W G Armstrong
City/Town Port Elizabeth
State/Region/Province Cape
Country South Africa
Trade Gunsmith, Importer & Dealer
Dates c.1869-1889

Notes

George Armstrong was related to the London firm of Armstrong & Co. See also Cradock.

And so for Cradock (place name):

Name George Armstrong
City/Town Cradock
State/Region/Province Natal
Country South Africa
Trade Gunsmith, Importer & Dealer
Dates 1868?-1889?

Notes

George Armstrong was related to Armstrong & Co of London. See also Port Elizabeth. The Cradock branch may have closed before the Port Elizabeth main shop.

Thought this might interest you:

[img:left][/img]

Jeremy,

As I mentioned, I have seen a number of guns with this mark. On some of them it does look like a period underneath the 'o', but with a magnifying glass several others of them clearly show it as an underline.

BTW, all of the Arthur Howell guns that I have examined also have the "JA" stamp under the barrels, which I understand indicates that they were sourced from Joseph Asbury who machined barrels and apparently also actions for the trade.

I have never figured out how to post photos to this forum, but I can email you several photos of that A.H&Co stamp, if that would help.

[quote=redoakBTW, all of the Arthur Howell guns that I have examined also have the "JA" stamp under the barrels, [/quote]

Well I don't have my collection handy but I know I've seen that JA, possibly on these barrels. I'll have to check.

Thanks.

Jeremy

Tim
Interesting photograph of the label. I have a reproduction copy but have never see an original. More typically Armstrong and Co. used a simple leather diamond embossed with their name, or an oval print/stamp on other items.

I'm still curious about the claimed South African connection. Is there any evidence supporting the statement that George Armstrong was related to Armstrong & Co of London?

I'll have to dig out the copy of the catalog I have that lists the Darlington address for the Newcastle firm.

thanks
Jeremy