doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Insurance for Collectors Associations

This was brought up on another thread and I didn't want to hijack that thread. The issue being liability insurance for Collectors Associations being required for display at the Vintager's Cup.

The Lefever Arms Collectors Association has never had liability insurance. We do not, as an organization, sell any guns. We did begin an annual raffle of a Lefever shotgun 2 years ago. We own no property, have no employees, and otherwise don't do too much that could raise a liability issue (at least in my mind).

I inquired about insurance through the NRA. This appears to be another one of their money raising tactics as the LACA would have to become a corporate member of the NRA and pay all kinds of dues and fees in addition to the cost of insurance. I have nothing against the NRA, and am a personal member, but the constant barrage of fund raising mail and phone calls is a bit tiring. I don't care to double that with an association membership.

This does not have anything to do with insurance for guns displayed. That is the responsibility of the gun owner. I can assure you that all of my guns on display are very well insured and I assume the same for any other member who wishes to display on our tables.

I may be na�ve. I am sure somebody is going to tell me some horror story like the Fox Collectors being sued for libel for claiming that Fox is the best shotgun made I need to be convinced that this insurance thing isn't just another ploy for money.

Your Statement: I can assure you that all of my guns on display are very well insured and I assume the same for any other member who wishes to display on our tables.

This is not about your guns being insured. This is liability insurance. That is about protection of others. Various venues are requiring this.

For example, if something happens that you or your gun has caused injury to others, the venue whats to know that you are insured for that.

Their attorneys probably advised then to do this.

JOhn Boyd

It's just the venues way of covering their risk by shifting it to others. They are not in direct supervision of displaying so if anything happens they want others to have some insurance coverage as a first line of defense. They will get sued anyways because a smart leaguer will try to lay blame to as many parties as possible hoping that one or all will pay off.

The NRA is a mixed bag. Without them our firearms rights would be gone by now. But their constantly sending me mailings and dire warnings about things gets old. If they quit sending me constant junk mail trying to sell me stuff or get me to donate more money to them they would save a lot of money.

A million dollar liability insurance policy might be a fairly simple thing to buy. I have been one for three million per occurrence, three occurrence max. Others here might have a suggestion of where they buy theirs. Mine is a rider on some business insurance that covers me both at work and in private. Even my home owners insurance has some coverage.

KY Jon is absolutely right when he says that without the NRA, we would have lost our firearms rights by now. At best, we would have the same type of restrictions and outright bans that England and Australia have suffered.

I frequently hear the lame excuses for not joining NRA, and frequent solicitations for donations are the the most common excuse. I too got tired of the frequency of requests. What bothered me was that I felt too much of what I donated annually was going right back into postage and printing for more solicitations. The solution was very easy. I called the NRA and told them that if they contacted me for donations more than 4 times per year, I would no longer donate to them. Ta-Da! It worked. I no longer pay annual dues to NRA because I am a Benefactor Life Member. But I still regularly donate to the NRA-ILA and NRA-PVF because the attacks on our Gun Rights by anti-2nd Amendment Democrats are relentless.

I'm curious what corporate dues would cost for the Lefever Arms Collectors Assn., or any other firearms collectors association, to become an NRA affiliate. I consider my NRA membership to be about the cheapest insurance there is to maintain my Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

Keith I agree! Bobby

I did not intend for this to become an NRA discussion. As I stated, I am a member and intend to remain so. I do not want to risk the 501(c)(3) non-profit status of the LACA by a formal affiliation with a quasi-political organization. That is a whole other issue which is not the purpose of this thread.

The issue is whether a non-profit organization that has no employees, no significant assets, does not sell firearms, does not independently sponsor any shooting activity, or otherwise do anything that would raise a liability issue in the mind of a normal person need liability insurance.

What am I insuring against? The possibility that somebody steals a gun on display, loads it (no loaded guns are ever displayed), and proceeds to damage something, or somebody. That somebody mishandles a gun at the display table and drops it on their foot and breaks a toe? That one of the guns gets up by itself and shoots someone (as we all know they do from time to time).

Dr. Bob look at it from the shoots viewpoint. It someone gets hurt because of something that happens under their tent the question becomes who is going to be be financially responsible? Yes your organization has no real assets but if something happens nobody is going to stop there. They will try to sue the shoot any anyone else with assets.

I belong to the NRA as well. We need a strong NRA for sure. I don't get into politics if I can help it.

KY, I practiced high risk (gastroenterology) medicine for 30 years. I know about lawyers and liability, believe me.

So far I have found a policy for $600 per year. That is 15% of the entire annual non-raffle revenue of the LACA. This is to provide a free display of antique guns to attract visitors (and potential customers) to an event being held to raise money for an organization that is not currently registered as a non-profit. Yes. the LACA benefits from the exposure, but not 15% of our annual revenue worth.

It should be noted that we participate in the Las Vegas Antique Arms Show, Northeast Side by Side, Spring Southern Side by Side, Rock Mountain Northern Expo, and others if invited, without any kind of insurance requirement.

I have been affiliated with a 501(c) non profit club for a good bit, and there has never been any question about their status due to affiliating with the NRA to carry liability insurance. I don't know how that might translate to your situation. I think liability insurance is probably a good idea so that club 'volunteers' have a little buffer when mr. slip-n-fall walks up to the table seeming like a good old boy.

I didn't make this an NRA discussion. I merely addressed your concerns about what anyone can do about too much NRA fund raising. I cannot see how LACA affiliation with NRA would jeopardize non-profit status if it didn't make it a for profit entity. It would (or should) be different for a church since their non-profit status is based upon the 1st Amendment Freedom of Religion, and many take in large amounts of money. But many also venture into politics without any threat or loss of non-profit status even when they are rather blatant about political preferences and endorsements.

I'd rather not get into politics either, but unfortunately, it is politicians of a particular bent who are a constant threat to our right to own and shoot firearms. If none of us got into politics pertaining to our gun rights, they would be as good as gone.

It seems as if you answered your own question about the need or necessity of some type of liability insurance. If you don't think there is ever even a remote possibility of an injury or accident due to a LACA Display, then spending money on insurance is not necessary. Nobody can sue LACA for libel if you say that Lefever engraving or choke boring is better than Parker or L.C. Smith.

But if a certain venue will not permit you to display your guns without liability insurance, then you either buy insurance, display pictures of your guns instead of the real thing, or just stay home... and hopefully think about the Liberal Democrat politicians and anti-gunners who encourage lawsuits to bankrupt gun owners, gun manufacturers, and discourage firearms ownership by making it too costly.