doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com chokes

I have a couple of questions regarding chokes. I have very nice Merkel SLE 12gauge, in great condition. The inletting is almost perfect, coin finish, and blued barrels likewise. The only thing I don't like about it is the chokes-F/F. I have shot spreaders in it while shooting Sporting clays, and do OK.

I am wondering about opening the choke up in one barrell or maybe letting Briley's install tubes in it. I will only use it for Dakota pheasants, besides an occaisional SC round. Oh, and would you shoot any steel in it?

Would like to hear your opinions. Thanks
Gary

On steel ... NO! As in NEVER! and most certainly NOT in your nice gun.

On opening a choke &/or getting a tube or tubes .. I would spend the money on a MEC loader instead and and play with some loads that allowed you more variety of patterns. Homemade spreaders can be VERY open. Its been a long while since I have posted this, but taking a cookie sheet and pouring the shot to be loaded out on it and then just flatening it with a suitable bludgeoning devise [hammer/brick/hard stone/etc.] and then loading the flattened shot into any of several spreader loads can REALLY open the patterns up. I use a thick steel plate on top of the shot and a few good sound blows with a sledge hammer to do a lot of it with minimal labor. Prolly ought to go buy your own cookie sheet, brides take use of theirs for flattening lead as a step too far. In between the home made plombe disco [flattened shot] spreader loads and your factory full chokes is a whole world of good fun developing some loads that will deliver patterns suitable to your need[s]. Just screwing in a choke tube marked such & such tells you nothing about the patterns being delivered. You don't need to count holes, just use a good plate with some white lithium grease or whitewash that can be re-coated quickly with a few swipes from a paint roller.

One of the members here, I don't remember who, suggested using a plastic soda straw inserted into the shot column to effect an open pattern and another the use of golf tees to the same effect. Both methods work. Keep to published recipes for powder and weight of ejecta and you are on firm enough ground. FWIW, high pressure & velocity loads [not the same thing, mind you] tend to produce more open patterns.

Hope that something here assists you. And of course, "Welcome to the board!"

Welcome also Gary: This is a common question, and discussed recently over on the 16ga Society Forum http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3527
My position is, unless it's a high condition 'collector' quality gun, why not make it right for you? And IC/IM is a great S. Dakota pheasant combo, whether 'block and drive' or behind flushing or pointing dogs.

To add to what tw advises, Downrange Manufacturing's Pattern Control Post wad (probably a copy of the unavailable Remington Power Piston Post is claimed to increase patterns aboutf 3" at 30yds. Back awhile a couple of us were experimenting with Bill Murphy's suggestion that adding a small piece of Tygon tubing over the post would reduce the volume for shot charge to 1 oz. Seemed to me the wad worked pretty well as a spreader with or without the bushed post. If you load 1 1/8oz for S.C. it should open your full/full. 1969 Lyman manual states that the comparable Remmy wad was useful for opening patterns in full choked trap guns (probably for 16yd). I think Lenard Lempky was the first to suggest pieces of soda straw stuck in the shot. I like home-fabricated cardboard Xs also but don't like making them. There are some other types of dispersor wads available also. None of these fixes will lead the bores; if you like complication, you could also cut off shotcup petals and let the barrel walls create the flat shot for dispersion. Hey tw, when you gonna loan me one of them "raye bores" so I can find out for myself. :P

jack

Gary,
I'm of the thinking that this isn't a collecable and I'd not have any heartburn over openning the chokes. In fact, I'm not hard over against Briley screwin's on a commonly available gun of hunting grade.

If I had your gun, I'd probably open the chokes to .030/.008

I tend to agree with TW on getting a reloader and making up some loads that work for you.
Also I wouldn't shoot steel out of your gun. Bismuth would be ok, but if you are not shooting ducks or geese I would stay with lead.
As far as hunting pheasants in S.D., unless you are early season hunting, I think that the combination you have is great. I made the mistake of using a 20 ga. 26" barrels imp.cyl/mod on a hunt in mid November using pointing dogs. It's very hard to shoot when 10-20 pheasants are taking off and you are looking for colors, by that time they are out there. Next time nothing smaller than a 16 ga. with 28-30" barrels, at least mod/full.
I'm still confused as to why people worry about what choke markings are on their guns. Especially some of the older guns. It's true that with todays plastic wads, the patterns seem to be tighter, but that can be changed. Besides reloading there are shell manufactures making shells for older guns to pattern like they did yesteryear.
I still recommend that you pattern your gun with a variety of different shells and find the one that best suits your needs.

I have considerable respect for both tw and RevDocDrew but note they have very divergent opinions about this. I have no compunctions about opening chokes on guns I intend to use so they suit my needs. I dislike fiddling with screw in chokes so that I wouldn't do. So my Parker 20ga has been opened from Mod/Full to a very functional skeet and modified (which did very well in S. Dakota on pheasants and always on desert quail in AZ.) I also opened the chokes the same on a Sempert Kreighoff sidelock 16ga. The old Kreighoff wasn't marked as to choke originally so a collector would have no way of knowing it had been opened except my word.

Gary: I don't have much use for a F/F setup, at least on a hunting gun. Knowing only as much about your gun and intended use as you've shared here, I'd suggest you open the bottom barrel (I'm guessing this is an O/U) to Skeet 1 or IC and leave the other barrel alone for a season. It will be a more practical setup and make the gun more valuable to most future owners. If your Merkel is like the one I owned, those original bores are very tight. Have you measured them? TT

Thanks for the opinions, will carefully consider all of them.
Two Triggers: Sorry I wasn't more specific; it is a SXS, 47SL.
Thanks again, Gary

I'm with the "make it to suit your uses" bunch. Spreaders are a pain to make and don't accomplish the magic that some attribute to them, IMO. Full/full is a very limited use combination. Full and IC is versatile. I have a Bernardelli hammer 12 that is (now) .010" in the right and .025" in the left. An outstanding gun for desert quail and does a very impressivbe job on skeet, doubles trap and sporting clays.