doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The Woodward Automatic

I recently saw one of these for sale and wondered what does the Automatic really mean. My guess is the term was coined when hammerless guns were first developed and the hammers were cocked automatically.
I understand that Woodward used the Automatic name for some time, well after hammer guns fell out of favour.
Can anyone add insight to this topic? There weren't a lot of Woodward guns pmade but I understand the quality ranked in with the best makers.

No external hammers and self cocking, I think. A lot of'em (not just Woodward)during that transition were dubbed "automatic"...Geo

Just like for a while Uncle Dan called his creation the "Lefever Automatic Breech Loading Hammerless Gun."

The "Automatic" guns sold by Woodward,Lang and Rigby were trigger plate, underlever cocking, hammerless guns.
Crudington and Bakers secound vol of The British Shotgun devotes 3 or 4 pages to these guns.

An article in DGJ discusses the Woodward Automatic.

Woodward used 'The Automatic' as a model name for some time after the mechanism that it was coined for had passed out of use. The original Automatic was a underlever opened & cocked sidelock using a Purdey type double bite bolt. One of the neat features in the patent and found on all the true Automatic guns that I have worked on is a interceptor sear that is controlled by the top tang safety. I have never seen a Woodward Automtic that was a triggerplate design, all have been sidelocks. However a very similar lever was used by Grant in their triggerplate coil sprung actions, although they didn't use the model name 'Automatic'.
I posted some photos of the the Woodward action a short while back. The link to the post is
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=497655&page=1

I also though the Woodward was a sidelock, but wasn't sure enough to post. There was a Joseph Lang push forward underlever that was certainly a trigger plate action. I had one and it was a nice gun with a top strap safety that was a 1/8 turn type design; sounds awkward, but was in fact easy to use and very easy to see if applied or not.
Safety catches and 'loaded indicators' were apparently a big concern on early hammerless guns as users struggled with the idea that it was always at 'full cock', having been used to visible hammers.

My mistake the Lang is the trigger plate and the Woodward a side lock. I confused the diagrams.

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Thanks, Toby---great pics on the link. Interesting that Woodward adopted the Purdey double under bite but not the Purdey top lever---perhaps the under lever was considered to be stronger?
I presume most of the "Automatics" were non ejectors but surely there must have been a few ejectors?

"The Automatic" patent was originally for a hammer gun which lever cocked the exposed hammers on opening, a very novel idea at that time and the automatic reference. Just neater 'n all get out for hammergun people. The under lever allowed simple linkage as opposed to a top lever. JW made a number of attempts to circumvent the Purdey patent, but wound up using it most of the time. Toby has /has had some interesting variations, one a scissor type bolt. A few hammergun "The Automatics" were made, but most were hammerless as the hammerless guns were quickly becoming the fashion.

The earliest "The Automatic" ejector in my virtual collection is #3761 for 1880. I would not be surprised to find it was converted at a later date. The next is #4323 for 1887 and ejector guns are fairly common thereafter. The last UL "The Automatic" in my V-collection is #5479 circa 1900, a non-ejector shot and ball gun.

DDA