doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Values of Sleeved British Guns

To a collector maybe. To a shooter, the value of a marginal gun would have to be discounted enough to reflect those defects. So for shooter grade guns I doubt there would be a 50% difference.

The impact of sleeving on handling numbers is predictable. If you plan to replace thin tubes with thicker, you best be prepared for handling changes. But then, the handling you experience with thin tubes is not like when the gun left the maker. The weight, balance (teeter-totter), and swing efforts are not "ruined", rather, they are changed. If you like light weight, rear balanced, low/fast swing efforts you may find the handling of a sleeved gun degraded. On the other hand, if you like weighter guns with more forward balance and higher/slower swing efforts you may well find sleeving a gun improves its handling.

DDA

Rocketman, what is your opinion on price?

Michael,

To use RM's spreadsheet you would need to determine the Current Condition (CC) of the gun(s). If you assume a gun has to be sleeved for safety reasons, then the CC would be 8 or 9 (marginally shootable or wall hanger). After sleeving, it would be a 6 or 7 (note: the spreadsheet doesn't have a sleeving category, but does show barrel replacement).

Very marginal to unsafe Boss Best SLE: BV1-OQ1-CC8=$3876
Sleeved Boss Best SLE: BV1-OQ1-CC6=$8874

I'm sure RM may say I misinterpreted the spreadsheet, but the key is to determine the Original Quality of the guns (in this example).

Ken

The above post is the extreme end of the spectrum. The original gun needed to be sleeved (deemed unsafe). If the barrels are shootable, but borderline (define that please) then the Current Condition is closer to 4 or 5. I assume borderline is greater than 18 thou towards the barrel muzzles and nothing too severe in the first 9 inches of the barrel.

Borderline shootable barrels Boss Best SLE: BV1-OQ1-CC4.5=$13,980.

RM's CC codes:

1 Pristine = top one or two gun(s) of one hundred like guns
2 Limited use - slight finish wear, little shooting
3 Significent use
4 Heavy use, but no abuse
5 Minor repairs needed or proper restoration accomplished
6 Shootable but needs some repairs and refinishing or refinished with barrels or stock replaced
7 Shootable but needs expensive repairs or restored with stock and barrels replaced
8 Marginally shootable, significent repairs required soon or poor restoration
9 Unshootable without major repairs/wallhanger

Ken

KDGJ, You did a fine job of using my charts as they are intended. First, we need keep in mind that the charts give a sorta starting place value. Value is a recommendation. Price is an amount of money that a willing and able buyer agrees to give an equally able and willing seller. Many factors may influence price that are unknowable to the value charts.

Michael, we need to know the CC of the rest of the gun. Guns that would have higher value except for the barrels are much better candidates for sleeving than are low value guns.

Sleeving is for barrels that are non-repairable. This condition may be from wear or from an accident. A high condition gun is unlikely to have worn barrels. So, a high condition gun with sleeved barrels is most likely to have met with an accident. Properly sleeved, such a gun returns to being a reliable long term shooter. On the other hand, a low condition gun likely has worn barrels and has had alotta lead down the pipes. That means there are likely a number of breakages on the horizon. Sleeving a worn out Boss does not get you highly servicable gun. The only way to approach a worn gun is to make sure it is purchased at a price that allows all wear, including those worn barrels, to be set right.

Dig Hadoke opined in his first book that a best work gun with worn out barrels and stock can be had for little enough money to allow new barrels (not sleeved), a new stock, and all action functions set right for something like $20,000. His point is that you then have near new best work gun with barrels and stock to your fit for a somewhat affordable price. I'm going to start a new thread to discuss a case on this point.

DDA

KDGJ and Rocketman,

Thank you...this is the thrust that I've been looking for.

JP

Different Strokes for Different Folks, I suppose. Seeing the joint line in a sleeved or Mono-Blocked set of barrels never bothered me as long as it was neatly done. Would just as soon see the seam as to have the needed "Heat" applied to weld which is about the only method of having a truly invisible seam. I "personally" don't like welding heat applied to that area of a barrel.

That's the problem with attempting to assign some percentage of added or reduced value to a gun that has been sleeved. So much of it depends upon the quality of the workmanship. Someone posted a photo of a sleeved gun here recently that had a very visible joint that was still very evident despite the ugly chicken scratch engraving that was applied over the joint in an attempt to conceal it. At the other end of extremes is this .405 Winchester double rifle built on a Simson shotgun action by the late Bob Hynden:

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=439017#Post439017

I also agree with Miller about having a concern over the HAZ (Heat Affected Zone) in an area where pressures are still very high in sleeved guns where TIG welding is used in place of solder or brazing. No question that guns done that way have the most undetectable sleeving joint, but there is no way to post anneal without also melting the brazing of the barrel lugs and stubs. I know barrel steel isn't high enough carbon to become brittle from air quenching during cooling, but I'd like to see some actual pressure testing of the two methods to know for sure.