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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378 |
Flats look especially long on this one especially for 65mm 12? Indeed, measure the length of the flats or better yet the water-table & see if they are similar to the length of a H.A. Lindner. Serbus, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378 |
The tubes were sourced from the Schilling Forge too.
Under the Z-M ledger number 484 on the flat is the intertwined Zella-Mehlis stamp of Z-M.
Serbus,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378 |
Yes, there was an Edwin List in Gotha and not much more info that that. Too, there was a List & Compagnie in Suhl with Wilhelm List as the proprietor. His specialty was barrel inserts, scope mounts, stock work(alterations/modifications) & repairs. No idea if they were related.
Serbus,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Apr 2021
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 43 |
The water-table measures 2 3/8" on the E. List gun.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378 |
![[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]](https://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/69010_600x400.jpg) So, 2 3/8" as shown? Serbus, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378 |
If you would, measure the length of the barrel flat for the friction surface between the two when mated.
Serbus,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378 |
Most German makers of the A&D Body Action after the Patent Protection Period expired had an length of 48mm from the standing breech to the edge of the water-table. Lindner's A&D Body Actions had a length of 56mm whilst his sidelocks had a length of 62mm.
Now, Oskar Will of Venus Waffenwerk made and peddled an almost exact copy, engraving & all, with a horn trigger-bow-guard in his 1902/1903 catalogue. But I know not the length of his water-table.
Serbus,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 43
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 43 |
See below pics to show length of water table. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/Q3L2Tdb.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/tait9DO.jpg)
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,936 Likes: 340
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,936 Likes: 340 |
smp190,
The mark under the 484 is not a proof mark, it appears to be the "house mark" for the Zella Mehlis Proof House ( i.e. Z and M). The gun was not likely made by E. List, rather it was likely made by one of the makers in or around Zella Mehlis and maybe marketed by E. List. I said "maybe" because the rib where his name is stamped seems damaged. It opens the possibility that one owner was E. List and the stamp was a DYI effort. Of course, the possibility of ownership is pure speculation. A barrel with the Crown W was choked but at that time the constriction was not shown. Experience shows that most were tightly choked, especially so with "shot cups" or "collars".
Mike
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Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 120 Likes: 14
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 120 Likes: 14 |
Yes, there was an Edwin List in Gotha and not much more info that that. From the 1913 address book of the Residenzstadt Gotha (p. 302): Edwin List, Herzoglich Sächsischer Hofbüchsenmacher, Dorotheenstraße 53. So he sold the gun. Carcano
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