doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com J. Springer 16ga

Hello experts!

I've come across one that is completely new to me while helping to price an estate for a friend of mine who has a business clearing gun estates.

This is a 16ga sidelock with a Greener crossbolt stamped " J Springer" and "Wein" on the barrels with a 4 digit serial number on the lower tang. Modest engraving and Belgian proof marks. I did a little bit of research and it seems like the company produced high end firearms early on in Austria and then was sold in the late 50s. My guess is that this was made in the 60s sometime by the new owner? Anyone have a clue?

It's a svelt 6lbs 2 oz, 28" barrels with a small wrist/frame reminiscent of my AH Fox guns. Points quite nicely.

It will go to auction eventually, just no clue where to start the bidding. Any information is helpful.

C2F6415C-4D82-43D0-8200-37BA0529E45D_1_105_c by Shane Bevel, on Flickr


Thanks!
ShaneB

BF8B2D6B-B989-4AFD-A0A8-E6EA34DF3B3D_1_105_c by Shane Bevel, on Flickr

34405794-367B-4A9F-B060-BDA677AE7E18_1_105_c by Shane Bevel, on Flickr

31231430-0CD7-4158-B74E-F334950154BC_1_105_c by Shane Bevel, on Flickr

Johann Samuel Springer died in 1875 but the business carried on thereafter. Raimey will know the details.
Current
https://connecticutshotgun.co/galazan-gazette/christian-johann-springer/
Looks like a sideplated boxlock with a lettre annale 'q' for 1938
65 mm chambers
Tubes by Delcour Dupont (Crowned D) using quality steel from Cockerill
Are there no maker's initials on the action flats or further forward on the barrels?

Thank Drew... that date would certainly match the frame and stock size of the gun better. Let me check again and see if I see anything else. I may have missed it for sure. I am way more well-versed in American arms from that period.

Hopefully Drew Hause will be able to tell you the date code - it looks like a block q but I don't find a date to match on the references I found.

It's a "side-plated boxlock" not a sidelock, and will generally be worth much less than a sidelock.

Thanks! FlyChamps! I do see the boxlock hiding there now. I photograph the firearms for the company and I just grabbed a few quick phone photos to post here. I am photographing a lot of 100+ firearms for them next week and will have better photos then.

The only story we have is that the previous owner bought it "in the 80s" because it was pretty and cheap. He thinks he "may have paid a couple hundred for it." They emailed the Springer company I suppose and got an email back that was run through google translate (no judgement... their english is likely FAR better than my German!), but the records they had seemed to show that serial number belonging to a hammer gun made in the 1800s, so there is a disconnect somewhere.

Odd that it doesn't wear the >>Erben<< stamp. Too, this was ordered by Springer from the mechanics in Liège just as the Germans were expanding their footprint. Ah, my knowledge is cursory but I know someone who has info:

Text by Mr. Felix Neuberger:

>>Johann Springer's Erben translates to John Springer's heirs.
Once upon a time there has been a Viennese gunmaker whose guns
and rifles built between the wars were on a par with anything
else built in old Europe.Their customers were the aristos and the grand bourgeoisie of central and eastern Europe. By 1945
this customerset did not exist anymore. There emerged in recent
years 2 Springer weapons in US which may exemplify it. The biggest Springer customer has been the Polish Lubomirsky
arissto clan ordering a total of 34. One of them has been mayor
of Warsaw whose double rifle came on the US market recently.
Unfortunately he made a letal misjudgement on the benevolence
of the Gestapo/SS at the time of the invasion in 1939 .
Another has been count Josip Bombelles from a balkan country
in the southeast of Europe, whose nr. 1 of his trio emerged
in recent years in US. He has been a high-level diplomat and
politican, unfortunately on the wrong political side which
could be fatal in these countries. He survived an assassination
attempt, finally deported to and killed in the concentration/
death camp of Jasenovac in 1942.
The new customers of Springer from 1945 have been the officers
of the occupation forces to Austria (Russian, American).
With the state treaty in 1955 these folks returned to their
countries and Springer had to shut down the production of his
de-luxe weapons.
So what happened to the workshop people.
Hans Piffl, their Werkmeister (foreman/workshop manager) from
1939 on, left in 1954 and took over the gunshop of
"M�llers Witwe" in the provincial spa-town of Baden.He later
changed the shopname to "Hans Piffl" and finally sold
his gunshop in 1964 upon his retirement.
Herbert Winkler, their junior engraver, left already
beginning of the 1950's due to missing work and got a job in the electro-industry. He continued as freelance engraver
until his death few years ago.
Hans Jiricek, their stocker, left and started to work for
Piffl until finally becoming freelance stocker on his own.
No-name guns are a fascinating element of the collectors scene. I mean with it either a gun without any name on it
or with an unknown name. I recall a Belgian sidelock in
an English auction with an outstanding piece of rose-bouquet engraving. The disassembly brought the answer with the
engravers name "Smeets".
There emerged a "no-name Piffl" sidelock ejector recently
in Austria which I bought. Not knowing who Piffl was, I have to admit that I have been puzzled. Because the gun had all the typical elements of a classical Springer .
It's the slender toplever, the form of the triggerguard shaped along a "Springer-egg" mould and above all Springer's inhouse
engraving a-la-Matzinger.
(Matzinger is for Springer what Lukas is for Purdey and
Sumner for Boss)
It has Belgian barrels with Viennese proofmarks dated 1963.
A question to Hans Jiricek brought the enlightement as he told that Piffl has been the Werkmeister when he joined Springer
in 1944.
So what do we have: A sidelock ejector built in the best
tradition of the house of Springer, built by their
ex-Werkmeister, engraved by their ex-engraver (with his
hidden initials as signature) and stocked by their ex-stocker
and according an insider from parts left over.
De jure a Piffl, de facto the last Springer, years after
they ceased their production .

Photos :

Hans Piffl-Werkmeister from 1939 to 1954
He has been a Springer trained gunsmith.
The photo shows members of the Springer crew attending
a "Gewerbe-Festzug" (trade-corso) in 1928.
Hans Piffl is second from right, with apron, holding
a barreled-action in the white.
(Photo courtesy J. Springer's Erben)
http://www.jpgbox.com/page/50429

Hans Piffl order to Hans Jiricek
http://www.jpgbox.com/page/50370

Herbert Winkler - engraver
http://www.jpgbox.com/page/50368

Herbert Winkler - at work
http://www.jpgbox.com/page/50369

Hans Jiricek - stocker
A descendant of a Czech (location Racice) immigrant to Vienna
at the end of the 19th century.
Aged 85, still active, the living anti-thesis to
the early-retirement mainstream of the public sector.
Austria's Red Bull Empire (formula one racing cars, energy
drink, stratospheren jump) has a retro-livestyle magazine
"Servus". Their scouting cowboys finally detected
Hans Jiricek and he was featuring in one of their papers.
When I met him and congratulated him to his new stardom he answered that the article is a curse as people curiously were flooding his workshop to chat or bringing guns for repair.
He simply commented "ich komme mehr zu keiner Arbeit".
http://www.jpgbox.com/page/50367

Piffl(Springer) sidelock ejector gun
http://www.jpgbox.com/page/50371
http://www.jpgbox.com/page/50372
http://www.jpgbox.com/page/50374

Springer egg-mould
http://www.jpgbox.com/page/50430<<

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...p;Words=erben&Search=true#Post423344

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Screenshot 2024-08-29 at 1.23.13 PM by Shane Bevel, on Flickr
Screenshot 2024-08-29 at 1.23.34 PM by Shane Bevel, on Flickr
Screenshot 2024-08-29 at 1.23.22 PM by Shane Bevel, on Flickr

Here is a more complete set of markings.