doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Creuznach Cape Gun

This is a W. JUNG CREUZNACH cape gun with a 11mmX16gauge with a 16X16 barrel. nice engraving. S#11430. Marks say made in 1886? seller say's made in Vienna but also said was a 20 Gauge which i know was wrong. thought it might be a 43 Mauser from poor photos (seller no help on this ) so bought it. So it ended up being the same cart. as the 43 Mauser ( including neck size & placement ) after fire forming just shorter 1.962 or 49.84mm on the fired case I have. on picture I have the 6 Brenden shells I received with the gun ( the last is a 43 Mauser shell of compairsent ). I have 2 ? 1 does anybody have any information on W. JUNG CREUZNACH and #2 does anybody does anybody run into this cart. the headstamp throwed me off.
although the utendoerffer is not oncome it only has 1876 instead of the Numrich.[img]http://[img]https://i.imgur.com/ytwR4sH.jpg[/img][/img][img][img]https://i.imgur.com/u5WFbvt.jpg[/img][/img][img][img]https://i.imgur.com/m6O2D4y.jpg[/img][/img][img][img]https://i.imgur.com/ejy7J6A.jpg[/img][/img][img][img]https://i.imgur.com/Kvzif0i.jpg[/img][/img][img][img]https://i.imgur.com/6bKGKEq.jpg[/img][/img][img][img]https://i.imgur.com/fRkWKtR.jpg[/img][/img][img][img]https://i.imgur.com/5YvTXH0.jpg[/img][/img][img][img]https://i.imgur.com/1WHIy5U.jpg[/img][/img][img][img]https://i.imgur.com/NcOymPP.jpg[/img][/img][img][img]https://i.imgur.com/J2fIETf.jpg[/img][/img][img][img]https://i.imgur.com/ytwR4sH.jpg[/img][/img][img][img]https://i.imgur.com/u5WFbvt.jpg[/img][/img]

Could have been made in 1886, but on - hand(Vorrat) in a Shop between January 1st & April 1st, 1893 and German. More than likely made by Christian Wolf, Suhl. So German. Egydius Jung might have been involved but it was retailed by C.F. Jung or Wilhelm Jung of Bad Kreuznach. Wilhelm Jung hung out his gunmaking shingle in 1872. He was born in 1845 and made his last file stroke on a weapon in 1932. So he had 27 years when he obtained his Gunmaker's Sheepskin. About 3 years older than typical.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Master Mechanic CFW has been seen on some early Daly's I believe?

Hochachtungsvoll,

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

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Hochachtungsvoll,

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Hochachtungsvoll,

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

The platform is a German Lefaucheux built by Christain F. Wolfe & it was on Wilhelm Jung's racks in early 1893 and retailed by Wilhlem Jung in Bad Kreuznach.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Just a sidenote / sidebar, but Albert Wilhelm Wolf was the son-in-law of Jacob Röhmer, Suhl, founder of the formidable machine-shop Römerwerke/Röhmerwerke.

Christian Wolf founded a tube making center @ Bierbachstraße 9, Zella Sankt Blasii-Mehlis in 1879. Christian was followed in the tube making craft by his son Julius Wolf and his son Adalbert Wolf..... The Z-M Wolf family were a tube rolling folk. Their specialty in rolling tubes was linings or similar.

I am going to go out on a limb & guess his middle name was Friedrich?

Hochachtungsvoll,

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

BGlass,
This is a very nice and unusually complete set and is very interesting. Does the case have any markings/names/or addresses on it? In the photo of the cased set, there seems to be an ammo box to the left of the case. If this box contained the cartridges with the set, it would be helpful if you could post a clear photo of the writing on the box. There were multiple cartridges based on the Mauser 11.15x60R (43 Mauser) cartridge case, contemporary with your rifle and it may be a lost cause to identify the specific one it was made for. Since many of these are so similar, it may not make much difference as long as you can buy or make cases and bullets for it. Do the cartridges that came with the rifle have the same type of rim (called Mauser Mase or MB) as the sample 11'15x60R Utendoerffer (a predecessor of RWS) case? Regardless of whether the cartridge has the Mauser Base or a flat base, given the case length you cited, it would be pretty easy to make cases from common 45-70 cases. After determining the necessary bullet diameter, it is fairly likely you can find a common bullet that will fit or can be sized to do so. This is only important if you are interested in shooting the rifle, and if not, you can disregard it. I did note, however that the rifle barrel is steel, and the shotgun barrels are Damascus type, which is a pretty common situation. If you do intend to shoot it, let us know and several of us can help. Some of us only use black powder in antique rifles and others never use it. There are good reasons for each position and the decision which would be entirely yours.
Mike

Thank You to Raimey and Mike.
Your help means alot to me.
Mike the case does have R. C. Becker on a old oval plate on the case. The Utendoerffer was original with the gun as were the the 5 loaded shells.The shell Length is 50mm on these. note here the seller sent the loaded shells and close to a full box of primers in the same box by USPS to my house. I am not worried about cases as I have fire formed several out of 43 Mauser. I recieved like 120? case's with my Sauer double rifle which Thanks to RAIMEY'S help got me on this sight.
Reloading is my weakness. With my 43 Sauer also received a Old West Paper mold and a Brooks Adjustable paper mold Also received load Data 32GR 4198 Powder 1 marble size poly filler and 370gr paper patch bullet. I would not Know if this pertains to a 50mm shell. would like information otherwise will use Black powder & drop tube.

William,
I mentioned forming cases from 45-70 because 43 Mauser cases are pretty scarce around my house, and I need to save the ones I have for rifles requiring the full-length case. Since you have an adequate supply there is no reason to form them from 45-70. It seems you already have the ammunition well in hand anyway. Have fun.
Mike