doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com English Gun Proofs

What to these photos tell us? I"m still weak on my English Gun Proofs and figuring out when they were made, proof status, etc.

The gun is supposedly a Holland & Holland Royal, made around 1900.

London proved twice - the Crowned R towards the front is the reproof mark
The second proof was 1954-1989 when the 2 1/2" chamber, bore of .729" and 3 TONS (for a max. service pressure of about 9000 psi) were marked
Unfortunately the shot is not present; 96' - 04' would be 1 1/8 OZ MAX or MAXIMUM. 04' - 25' would be 1 1/8 OZ SHOT BUT it's not uncommon not to have the MAX nor SHOT.
The original bore was '12' which would be .729" - .739" so the reproof was not from honing.

Thank you, I feel better about what I came up with before king. I got all of that right, but this:


...knocked my confidence.

I didn't know it was uncommon for the SHOT to be missing and the serial number and steel barrels had me feeling like it should be newer than 1896...but I was just guessing.


That makes me wonder why it was reproofed and when, exactly.

The original proof marks are for black powder only (or pre-nitro). It was not compulsory to do nitro proof until some time after 1900. Lots of guns went through on black powder proof only around the turn of the century. I had a great Churchill pigeon gun with BP proofs.

Later on, some one had it reproofed for nitro. Perhaps in preparation to sell it as it was not out of proof by bore diameter.

Thanks Matt.

What Matt said.
Under the 1896 Rules of Proof:
12g 2 1/2” and 2 5/8” chambers (bore .710-.740) for a maximum service load of 3 1/4 Dram Eq. with 1 1/4 oz. shot. (1220 fps)
Definitive Proof – 6 1/2 Drams Proof-House Black Powder with 1 2/3 oz. No. 6 shot = 10,100 psi + 10 - 14%
Supplementary Nitro Proof was optional with 6 1/2 Drams of Curtis & Harvey No. 2 T.S. powder and 1 2/3 oz. shot = 16,400 psi + 10-14%.
Marked NITRO PROOF



The 1904 Revision in The Gun and Its Development, 1907
http://books.google.com/books?id=3HMCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA280
Supplementary Nitro Proof for any gun intended for Nitro powder, which was in general use by then.
Marked NITRO PROOF and the arm holding the saber over NP by the London Proof House; Birmingham Crown over NP
12g 2 1/2” and 2 5/8” chamber for service load 1 1/8 oz. proved with 4 1/4 Dram C&H No. 2 T.S. and 1 5/8 oz. shot
12g Extra – 2 3/4” chamber for service load 1 1/4 oz. proved with 5 Dram T.S. No. 2 and 1 11/16 oz. shot

Thanks Drew.