doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Bradler and Lachmann Graz-Borovlje-Biks-6.5X70R-16

Raimey,

If you were able to acquire the above 30 rounds of ammo, you are in business. From the appearance of the boxes, I think it is post- war manufacture and about as modern as you are likely able to find (other than custom loaded). The 5.5 mm Berdan primers were the standard primers, for the time, and even though difficult to find, a small quantity is available to you. Note the admonishment to use .257" bullets, which are smaller than the standard diameter for this cartridge. You have available to you the possibility of finding .261"bullets. If you take special care of them, 30 cases will last you a long time.
Mike

Thanks Ford Yes, I have about 30 sticks of RWS Berdan and about the same of Bertram Boxer along with a sack of 0.266' 130 grain Lead bullets w/ Gas checks. I think I have a few 5.5mm Primers stuck back, but that is a dig effort for now.

A Springer Kombo is slated to arrive this week & I hope there are a few cases with it.

I think I'll start w/ a few Berdan Primed RWS sticks of brass and use VV N 140 with the heavier 8,4 gramme bullet and see how close I get to 700 m/s?

Is there any appreciable velocity difference between the velocity of a Berdan Primed Case & a Box Primed Case? In reloading, how might either or change the recipe?

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
I don't have a practical way to determine if there is a velocity difference between Boxer and Berdan primers. I can't change primer type without also changing case type/make, which has the potential to vary the velocity due differences in case volume. The differences in velocity can be measured, but I don't know which variable to attribute the difference to, or if they balance each other.
This has been a pretty long thread; can you refresh my memory? Did you slug the barrel yourself? Did someone else? Was the groove diameter assumed to be the current normal 6.5mm (.264") standard? The expected groove diameter of a 6.5x70R barrel is .260-.261" and the use of an oversize lead bullet may not create a problem, or only something minor such as leading. Jacketed bullets, however, are not as forgiving and if they are too large to allow the case room to expand and release the bullet, excess pressure can result. Another consideration is bullet length, with modern bullets. The original bullet was round nose and a modern spitzer bullet of the same weight would likely be too long for the rifling twist. Even with these considerations, I don't expect you will have a problem finding a good load.
Good luck, let us know about the Springer when it arrives.
Mike

Yeah Ford, it has been slugged multiple times & the barrel stamp is >>6.8<< mm. I have a couple lying about and am going to try to work up a load between the group.

A 6,5X70R Pencil Case will hold 35 grains of VV N 140 and I expect a load to be something like 10 grains less.

I would say Most Austrian 6,5X70R chambers are going to be in the >>6.8<<mm to >>6.88<< mm range. A skosh larger than their German Cousins.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
You lucked out with that barrel but now that you reminded me, I seem to remember you telling me before. I don't have experience with the 6.5x70R but your projected load with VV N140 seems to be a good starting point based on the results with 4895 in the 6.5x48R and 6.5x58R. Good luck and have fun.
Mike

The recommendation of VV N140 does not seem to synch with German experiences and standards, as expressed in the Blue Bible.

Um, 7,35 Carcano, the Germans press into service a much lighter bullet & hence the R305 and faster powders. Plus the German versions of the Alpine 6,5X70R seem to have a smaller diameter bullet.

If you look @ Axel E.'s recipe of 28 grains 4064 for about 2200 fps; close to 700 m/s. And the Burn Rate of 4064 is somewhat close to VV N 140, albeit a skosh slower. But VV N 140 is an exceptional & phenomenal propellent that spans loads from 222 Remington to 375 whatever..... Now you are not going to reach peak velocity but the ultra consistent ignition, due to structure I think, it is Super Accurate. It is sort of a >>Universal Powder<< for me as I have enough for a lifetime for all kalibres. Last, it is quite similar to the old R5, which was the loading of many vintage chamberings from the >>Golden Age of Gunning<<.

I gaze @ the burn rates for an inordinate amount of time before I settle on something like VV N140 and as I work up and it doesn't work out, I will change Horses to something like VV N 135? But for the Alpine 6,5X70R or 6,6X70R, it was loaded with an 8,2 gramme bullet.

I have pulled several bullets and most folks are falling in line behind IMR 3031, which has a similar span from 222 Remington to whatever.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

The classic bullet weights for old factory cartridges (all leaded of course) were 6,2 g, 7,7 g, and 8,6 g.
The new leadfree (or nearly leadfree) bullets of course are lighter.

See also here: https://forum.wildundhund.de/threads/v0-der-6-5x70r.50238/

Carcano

It would be interesting to known when RWS transitioned from Berdan to Boxer in these cases.

And with this long column of powder, VV N 140 has consistent ignition and should fit the bill to convert propellant in this „Bleistiftpatrone“ to velocity.



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

When or whether at all.