doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Looking for some documentation on a Dreyse

Hello all,
I have come into the possession of an antique Dreyse SxS that has a few missing bits. I have had no real luck looking for this specific action type or at least any diagrams for it. As you can probably tell by now Im looking to get it fixed up and unfortunately that is easier said than done without the original pieces or a diagram. Any assistance would be appreciated, I've attached pictures please tell me if they are not working. Also before anyone comments, I have cleaned it, these are older pictures I took when I first got it. Pictures of the SxS

Berger - Adolf Zimmers 1877 text

Here's a start. Kindly forward any foto to me & I will gladly post them.

I don't see Dreyse, but I have been wrong once before, some time ago.....

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=328247&page=1


This thread & the Adolf Zimmer text from 1877 might provide some clues.



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Ah, I now see additional fotos below the 1st foto.






Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=655889&page=1

Dreyse DR. I will dig a bit more.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Axel E. on Dreyse origins after some admonishment as typical:

».......N.v.Dreyses gun had an eccentrical cam activated by an underlever. It slid the barrels first forward and then out to the side. Insofar it is more a relative of the Gastinne-Teschner-Collath slide and tilt actions than of the much later Stendebach side-swinging action. At the Dreyse, Soemmerda factory these side-swinging needlefires were soon superseded by Franz v.Dreyse's "improved" needlefires that worked on the basic Gastinne slide and tilt principle. The Stendebach guns were undoubtedly made by the Suhl guntrade. And:there was no side-swinging design by Behr, though both competed with similar up-down breaking designs.
This gun is made to Friedrich Stendebach's last gun action patent, DRP # 229533 of 1907. If you are looking for an "older predecessor" of this action, you have to go back to George Jeffries of Norwich British patent # 22 of 1862. Both the Jeffries' and the Stendebach actions are effectively break-open actions turned sideways. On both actions the barrels are held to the breechface by the dovetail-shaped underlug going sideways into a corresponding cut in the action bar. In plan this lug is curved on the Stendebach, wedge-shaped on the Jeffries. (BTW, I am well aware of the difference between Jeffries and Jeffery). To allow the barrels to move away from the breechface both actions have their hinges set over to the left, beyond the centerline of the left barrel. The purpose of both inventors was to get away from the up-down stresses that try to "break open" a conventional gun.
The Behr vs. Stendebach patent dispute was about other designs, Behr's DRP 154950 of 1904 being for a cattlekiller that showed some similarities to both Behr's and Stendebach's designs for unconventional break-open rifles.
Apparently Friedrich Stendebach's action designs, though very strong, were not very successful, reflected by the rarity of Stendebach patent guns and the confusing and muddled history of his many companies. "Friedrich Stendebach, Beiersgrund 3, Suhl" Gun and bullet factory, is mentioned from 1899 on, trademark "STENDA". By 1906 he also had a bullet factory in Leipzig-Gohlis. At the start of WW1 a "Stendebach & Co." existed too, making guns to Stendebach's and Kersten's designs. The "& Co" here was no other than Gustav Kersten, retired from the army. Remember, Franz Jaeger had refused to make guns to his uncle's designs, preferring his own. This Stendebach & Co. went into receivership in 1916, the receiver being Gustav Loesche, Wilhelmstr. 13, Magdeburg, founded 1873 by father Alfred Loesche, "Hofb�chsenmacher" = gunmaker to some court since 1911, mostly a dealer in guns and ammo as he advertized a "gunsmith shop inhouse". The business relations Loesche-Stendebach were intensive before and after the failing of "Stendebach & Co."
Apparently Stendebach then teamed up with the former "maker" of Kersten guns, as there was a "Vierordt, Stendebach & Cie. GmbH" with branches in Frankfurt a.Main, S�ckingen, Gm�nden a.M., Suhl and finally Augsburg. To addto the confusion, there was also a STENDA-Werke GmbH,Amtmannsweg 37, Suhl, owner Max Stendebach, in the 1920s. Augsburg seems to have been the last station of Friedrich Stendebach. Here he offered in the 1930s "original Stendebach guns", Mauser actioned rifles and cartridges and bullets of his own design. For his Mauser rifles he had his own proprietary cartridge, the forgotten 8x71 Stendebach Ideal M30 with his own "Ideal Universal" bullet, a complicated softnose with a hard and a soft lead core, separated by a steel ball. Stendebach's most successful design, in fact the only one still remembered, was his Stendebach Ideal shotgun slug.«

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=456015

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

„Johann Christian Nicolaus Dreyse's father was a locksmith and determined that Johann to follow in his footsteps so at the age of 14 he began the apprentice program in his father's shop. Johann fought it at every step wanting to devote his time to studies. In 1805 he completed the program and headed off to Leipzig, Dresden, the Rhine area followed by Paris where he landed up in Pauli's shop where he stayed till 1814,when he returned to his father's workshop with the determination to develop a breechloader, which Pauli had abandoned. Circa 1821 he married and about the same time partnered with a merchant named Kronbiegel making buttons, nails, etc. Kronbiegel soon expired and in 1824 he took on a partner and the shingle read Dreyse & Collenbusch(Carl/Karl). In 1840 & 1841 the facility was built in S�mmerda. Kronbiegel looks to have had a son named Bruno Kronbiegel designed things other than sporting weapons with D&C. In 1900 the concern was in a terrible financial bind and on March 31st 1901 Rheinmetall absorbed them."

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=456015


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

From what I can see on the thread regarding the Dreyse 11mm, the end of where the needles should be looks the same, wondering if theres any schematic for that as I dont think it uses the Berger mechanism. I might reach out to the guy that bought it and see if he isnt willing to show me the mechanism. Thank you for your responses.

No, it is not the same as the Berger Diagram I posted. I will continue to search for a Dreyse Sideswing Diagram.



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

U, 70 - Randschlusspulver



https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1157864813

Here's an example that was recently forsale....

Interesting that the Repair proofmarks are atop the tubes...

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse