doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com another gun fit point of impact ?

I agree, Ken. Here's what Rollin Oswald has to say about leading hand placement in his excellent book I referenced earlier.

"The best place to grip or hold the forearm is at or just forward of the mid-point of the angle formed by the elbow and upper arm, close to 90 degrees. This angle offers a good compromise between supporting the gun and preventing it's lagging behind during swings powered by body rotation (I.e., overcoming inertia)."

Ed's answer is a good example of armchair expert "advice". Oswald has been there and done it. Ken and I have, too.

Believe who you will.

Another tidbit from OIswald's book, concerning front hand placement.

"When a forearm is too short for the length of the arm, it will not feel proportional with the grip. The hand will have to be moved back with the arm likely to feel cramped. That will change the balance of the gun and will hamper smooth and accurate swings to targets. When it is not right, the ability to swing smoothly will be hampered."

Again, listen to armchair experts, or listen to those who know what they're talking about due to real life experience, like Oswald. Digweed is an expert, in his style of shooting. But, he is a really big man, and his leverage on a gun by moving his hand fore and aft, is different from mine. Or, probably yours. Oswald addresses the needs of the average shooter.

Gee Stan, I have been shooting shotguns since 1953..

how bout you?..

you sound like a shank too monious twit..

are you?

That's quite amazing, actually, that you could be so wrong about how to shoot well, after all those years.

You're proof that "live and learn" doesn't apply to everyone.

The left hand, commonly with the index finger as the indicator, is used as the pointer. You reach out and “touch” the front edge of the target, while the grip hand raises the gun to face.


I shoot a great deal Keith.
Clay and feathered.
Mostly with the shotgun started 10.5” below the crest of the shoulder, and not moving until the target is clearly seen in the air. Ken will understand that.

Shoot whatever shooting style you feel like.
If it keeps your club selling targets, fire away.

The extended forward arm is a traditional British thing BUT NOTE the head is well off the comb, possibly to compensate for the POI of SxSs which tends to be lower than a single barrel or O/U
According to ed's voodoo geometry, that should make the gun shoot even lower
"by moving the forend hand forward...
you are reducing the angle of the barrels...
thus, making the gun shot lower..."





OTOH, posture/mount/hand position is best left to what works. Some pretty good shooters at the 1896 GAH at Live Birds in various ready positions





"Blue Rock" Money using a hand guard



Athol Purdey at Monte Carlo

haw Stan...

your posts here regarding my shooting skills are...

to put it briefly, presumptively negative...

typical twit like behavior...

Preacher, I appreciate you posting a bunch of photos from your vast picture collection. Nice try. Again...

I am well aware of the shooting style where the shooter fully extends his arm, and his hand is then holding the barrels rather than the forend. And I wish I had a dollar for every time you Posted those very same photos here. You must find them especially fascinating.

However, in the very same photos you posted, only a couple of the shooters are using this arm fully extended mounting style. The majority clearly have their leading elbows bent, and they are gripping forend wood.

In addition, in CZ's Post I initially responded to, he clearly stated that with his arm fully extended, the forearm would end up laying in the palm of his hand. I called B.S. on that, and actually grabbed a stock unaltered Lefever and tried it. I felt that must indicate he has abnormally short arms, something like T-rex. You are tall and lanky, so I'd also assume the same would apply to you, unless you also have abnormally short arms.

Here, read it again Preacher... this time concentrating real hard on reading comprehension, rather than a gotcha moment that failed miserably.


In addition, when CZ replied, he suggested that "Ken would understand", however Ken made a reply where he said he had " suggested to a fellow he might want to take a more substantial purchase with his hand gripping the forearm."

Did you catch that????... "gripping the forearm"... almost like most firearms designers have apparently intended since they were building matchlocks. But there are no rules, and a shooter is free to place his leading arm anywhere.


That doesn't sound like Ken is advocating shooting with the arm fully extended, and leading hand way out on the barrels. If that works for you and CZ, that's just fine. Frankly, I'm surprised that CZ didn't tell us he routinely shoots 100 straights from the hip.

The proof is in the pudding. If it works, it works!

My goodness William. My post was clearly about the extended forward arm, and ed's claim. It had nothing to do with you.
Did you miss this? "posture/mount/hand position is best left to what works."

And I believe using pictures helps us understand. You'll note that "Blue Rock" and Athol's forward hand positions are the same, with the barrels in the palm. You can see in Athol's pic that requires significant supination (external rotation) of the wrist.

This is Robert Churchill, who was a short, stocky guy, with short arms; but his forward hand is also supinated



Fred Gilbert, one of the best American Live Bird and Inanimate Target shooters, with the same hand position. He is wearing a glove to protect his hand but later used a hand guard.



Jack Fanning was a stocky guy with short arms and he appears to have the FE resting in his palm