doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com question for Ithaca collectors...

I recently picked up an Ithaca flues 1 grade (due to the 1 stamped on the water table)20 gauge with twist bbls. Per the serial number I believe it was mfg in 1910. The barrel flats do not show the twist pattern. Did Ithaca build some of the false damascus bbls? Or has the barrel flat been polished to a degree that the twist is not evident? Sorry that I did not take a picture of the barrel flat and water table. I will do so when I get a chance. Thanks in advance for any information. Is there any Ithace doublegun BBS?

I'm not an Ithaca collector, but maybe I'll do as I have an answer. Polished laminated iron/steel usually does not show the pattern of material difference. Actually, it may take a good deal of effort to bring out the pattern, depending on the exact alloys. Blued/blacked pattern steel may not show the pattern except in very strong light and with careful inspection.

"False damascus" is mostly a red herring. It was done to cover up seam welded sheet steel barrels of very cheap guns. Ithacas, even the cheapest grades, were a long cut above that level.

Kurt,
GregTag is our resident cheerleader of Ithaca guns. He tried to organize us into a recognizable group a couple years ago. I don't know if he was successful with this ragtag group. I'm now officially an enthusiast of Ithaca guns with a Crass, a NID, plus 2 Lefever Nitro's (in 410) which were an Ithaca design I believe. And, of course, we have Walt Snyder here, who is the greatest resource of Ithaca information and author of the Ithaca book.

Given that your gun is a Flues and a 'twist steel' barreled one to boot, I'd recommend low pressure loads in that gun. There are many commercially available and of course, reloading recipes are endless for low pressure loads.

Thanks guys. I can't figure out how to edit the original post so I will add some information here. The SN is 1934XX. Are all of the Flues fluid steel barrels stamped....for smokeless powder?? Does anybody have a used copy of The Ithaca Gun Company-from the beginning they would like to sell?

I have been shooting low pressure 10ga, 12ga and soon to be 16ga and 20ga shotshells in damascus/twist Parkers for some time. For the pheasant hunt I just used of the shelf 7/8oz 20ga target loads. As a steady diet for SC or the like the low pressure would certainly be a good idea.

KjD

You're risking life and limb shooting off the shelf target loads in a 20ga. damascus Ithaca. Way too hot for that gun and it probably still has 2 1/2" chambers. Please be careful!!

Chuck...........with all those Ithaca's you should start that blog now!

Count me in!

Mr. Snyder should be along with contact info for a book. Yeah, keep the pressures low or you will get a chance to see the ribbons of steel and iron for yourself. No, not all Flues barrel are stamped Smokeless. And I'm going to go out on a limb, which someone may cut off, and say that Ithaca didn't make any Twist or Damascus tubes. They were purchased from Belgium or others. In from of the barrel flats on the barrels do you have a "LLH" stamp? Although, as Mr. Snyder states, most of the Damascus barrels I have seen have flats that were milled or filed which removed the marks.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

In the early years of the Flues Model Ithaca built their smallbores very light -- 28-gauges as light as 4 3/4 pounds and 20-gauges as light as 5 1/4 pounds. These guns not only had thin barrels chambered for 2 1/2 inch shells, but also had thin frame sides which led to cracked frames when the North American Nimrod began shoving 2 3/4 inch Super-X 20-gauge shells in them!! I'd strongly recommend sticking to very light loads in 2 1/2 inch cases in an early Flues 20-gauge. RSTs or the little 3/4 ounce Lyalvales come to mind.

Can anyone dig up any pictures of a blown-up oldie that had a steady diet of modern ammo so Kurt can see the kind of Russian-roulette he's playing?

It is certainly a lightweight. I couldn't get the digital bathroom scales to register. Not to mention the stock has been cut down to 12 3/4" and I run a 1" slip on butt pad. Thanks for your concerns guys but I am fully aware of the seriousness of shooting modern shot shells out of a composite barreled guns. As far as the chambers go, I measureed them with a tape measure and unless I went too far into the forcing cones the chambers are 2 3/4". They could have been reamed out or I measured incorrectly. The recoil doesn't seem to be sharp like shooting a overlength shotshell. This gun was produced more than 25 years after smokeless powder was available. I am sure the makers intended smokeless powder loads to be shot out of it. Certainly lower pressure than todays shotshells none the less. Quality built damascus/twist barrels are much stronger than most people give them credit for. I would be more worried about cracking the wood or the thin bolsters by shooting heavy recoil loads. The only damascus barreled gun I am personally aware of someone blowing up was because he accidently used smokeless instead of blackpowder when loading a 12 gauge. I am going to assume he was using close to 90 grains of BP and while substituting smokeless he was shooting in the ballpark of 6 times the amount of smokeless powder a typical target load would use. Needless to say it took several shots to blow the barrel. As most of you know it took Sherman bell about 30,000psi to blow a badly corroded Parker damascus barrel. With that said, I am not too concerned with shooting a few light target loads and will order some polywad vintagers or RST 2 1/2" shotshells.

Thanks again for your concerns,
KjD